3 నాస్తిక దర్శనాలు…

[Raven_Rayes]

13 minutes ago, dasari4kntr said:

trivia of this makkali goshaludu and ajivika movement is…he satyed in same timeline with gowtham budda and jain mahaveer….

he had a physical fight with jain mahaveerudu who teches ahimsa…

he had a conflict with budda followers because ajivika movement was  disrupting buddism expansion (who teached reduce the desire)

everyone was fighting in those times. Ponniyin Selvan (though it is set more than a thousand years later) had atleast one scene that showed shaivite and vaishnavite fighting that including using fists.

some fights even descended into tonsuring of opponents, and humiliating them.

anyway back to Carvaka, it is interesting to note that its proponents had already raised the problem with inductive reasoning (more than 2000yrs before Hume who's credited to have proposed it first). Carvaka explicitly states that its just matter of human psychology that we expect some events to follow others based on our similarities we have observed in the past, and that is something that cannot be rationally justified.

[Raven_Rayes]

36 minutes ago, dasari4kntr said:

trivia of this makkali goshaludu and ajivika movement is…he satyed in same timeline with gowtham budda and jain mahaveer….

he had a physical fight with jain mahaveerudu who teches ahimsa…

he had a conflict with budda followers because ajivika movement was  disrupting buddism expansion (who teached reduce the desire)

Jayarasi Bhatta of the Carvaka school says about the fallacy of Induction thus (picked directly from his book)

It may be argued that the relation of invariable succession could be apprehended in the case of a few particulars that are present at that time, but not in the case of all particulars. Then, only those particulars may function as having the relation so that one of them establishes the other. But the relation cannot obtain in the case of all particulars if there is a relation between one pair of objects, it cannot be the basis of inference with regard to another pair.

This is the kind of high quality arguments that indians (some of them) were indulging in, in the 8th century.

 

[dasari4kntr]

26 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

 

anyway back to Carvaka, it is interesting to note that its proponents had already raised the problem with inductive reasoning (more than 2000yrs before Hume who's credited to have proposed it first). Carvaka explicitly states that its just matter of human psychology that we expect some events to follow others based on our similarities we have observed in the past, and that is something that cannot be rationally justified.

hume is empiricist…charvaka is materialistic ….

like charvaka doesn’t believe in god and soul…all he believes in ear drink and live however he want…they are bit more rational too in my opinion …

empericist is little different he believes only what  he see or obtain by his senses…

thats where empiricism vs rationalism comes…

[Raven_Rayes]

Ajivika, Carvaka, Jainism, Buddhism are similar in a way because all of them lack a central creator god.

but even among traditional schools, Sankhya and Mimamsa have no central god. Yoga school speaks of a god, and the god is not a creator, but someone who liberates humans from suffering.

the other schools speak of a creator god, like the Nyaya, Vedanta, but none of the gods create universe out of nothing.

[Raven_Rayes]

8 minutes ago, dasari4kntr said:

hume is empiricist…charvaka is materialistic ….

like charvaka doesn’t believe in god and soul…all he believes in ear drink and live however he want…they are bit more rational too in my opinion …

empericist is little different he believes only what  he see or obtain by his senses…

thats where empiricism vs rationalism comes…

empiricism is branch of materialism. parts of Carvaka are empiricist. especially the part about the fallacy of inductive reasoning.

[dasari4kntr]

4 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

Ajivika, Carvaka, Jainism, Buddhism are similar in a way because all of them lack a central creator god.

but even among traditional schools, Sankhya and Mimamsa have no central god. Only Yoga school speaks of a god, and the god is not a creator, but someone who liberates humans from suffering.

the other schools speak of a creator god, like the Nyaya, Vedanta, but none of the gods create universe out of nothing.

all these are school of thoughts…which covers meta physics, determinism, materialism, logic and epistemology ..etc …they have no relation to any religion…but somehow current generation is thinking they are part of religion…

[Raven_Rayes]

1 minute ago, dasari4kntr said:

all these are school of thoughts…which covers meta physics, determinism, materialism, logic and epistemology ..etc …they have no relation to any religion…but somehow current generation is thinking they are part of religion…

Yoga is a religious philosophy. Vedanta too..  Nyaya, Vaisheshika too.

[dasari4kntr]

18 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

Yoga is a religious philosophy. Vedanta too..  Nyaya, Vaisheshika too.

no…nyaya , vaisheshika is not religious ….

vaishesika is by kanadudu…who proposed world is composed by atoms…he is absolute materialistic…

nyaya is not about religion…see the below small example what nyaya teches if you know telugu…

 

[dasari4kntr]

14 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

empiricism is branch of materialism. parts of Carvaka are empiricist. especially the part about the fallacy of inductive reasoning.

all men are mortal…

i am man…

therefore i am mortal…this is deductive reasoning or argument …

 

most indians speak hindi

i am indian

so i speak hindi…this is inductive reasoning or argument …

 

deductive reasoning is based on  facts…inductive is based on assumptions….empercisits mostly relying on inductive reasoning…rationlists mostly rely on deductive reasoning…

[Raven_Rayes]

1 hour ago, dasari4kntr said:

no…nyaya , vaisheshika is not religious vaishesika is by kanadudu…who proposed world is composed by atoms…he is absolute materialistic…

nyaya is not about religion…see the below small example what nyaya teches if you know telugu…

 

ofcourse I can read telugu. I can't read it only when you type telugu directly on the browser sometimes, because I still have trouble installing the right telugu font on my browser (which is not chrome based).

so what you posted is from a book on nyaya? fine.

while it is true that Nyaya philosophers wrote less about theology, Nyaya school does broadly believe in karma and rebirth. Nyaya school focuses on logical reasoning, but it is to prove the validity of vedas, and the existence of the supreme being.

but there are early nyaya sutras that are explicitly anti-Ishwara, so I don't know what the correct classification of it is. because they became more pro-iswara over time. Jayanta Bhatt's nyaya manjari explicitly tries to use formal logic to prove the existence of god.

but I do agree that Nyaya is broadly known as being a tradition of formal logic from India, which I've spoken about multiple times in this db. But unfortunately it is not a materialist school. It believes in jivatma and paramatma.

 

[Raven_Rayes]

16 minutes ago, dasari4kntr said:

all men are mortal…

i am man…

therefore i am mortal…this is deductive reasoning or argument …

 

most indians speak hindi

i am indian

so i speak hindi…this is inductive reasoning or argument …

 

deductive reasoning is based on  facts…inductive is based on assumptions….empercisits mostly relying on inductive reasoning…rationlists mostly rely on deductive reasoning…

well I posted an excerpt of an argument against inductive reasoning from a Carvaka philosopher in the 8th century. I don't understand why you insist that Carvaka is not empiricist. It is immaterial if they were broadly empiricist or not.. Some of them dabbled with it, obviously.

[spidy11]

37 minutes ago, dasari4kntr said:

no…nyaya , vaisheshika is not religious ….

vaishesika is by kanadudu…who proposed world is composed by atoms…he is absolute materialistic…

nyaya is not about religion…see the below small example what nyaya teches if you know telugu…

 

Hi Anna.. I'm reading "పాశ్చాత్యచింతన" by same author...So far interesting... by the way, "Chintana" ante emiti ? 😳 

[dasari4kntr]

7 minutes ago, spidy11 said:

Hi Anna.. I'm reading "పాశ్చాత్యచింతన" by same author...So far interesting... by the way, "Chintana" ante emiti ? 😳 

thinking…

[dasari4kntr]

8 minutes ago, spidy11 said:

Hi Anna.. I'm reading "పాశ్చాత్యచింతన" by same author...So far interesting... by the way, "Chintana" ante emiti ? 😳 

did you buy book..?

[spidy11]

9 minutes ago, dasari4kntr said:

did you buy book..?

no...online version