Ilaiah views

[chittimallu2]

3 minutes ago, uttermost said:

Yes. That's why I criticize RM only for that part (his association with Hindutva). 

lol ban. Some guy asked me to fire on psycopk, and I said that I don't fire on people who don't bother me, and invited him to use my id to do that himself.

That guy seems to have no patience. He could've used the id to slowly irritate psycopk, but it seems he unleashed on the first day itself, and got banned.

inko sari ivvaku evadiki nee ID...

not everyone who defends hinduism is hindutva... and moreover I dont see whats wrong with being a "hindutva" ... much better than pseudo seculars and brain dead liberals who find wrong in everything with what hindus celebrate ... im furious about the crackers ban for deepavali... but they dont care about the environment on crackers during IPL matches, weddings, new year's, etc

[chittimallu2]

2 minutes ago, uttermost said:

Christianity is as barbarous as Hinduism. In India it suffers from the same things that Hinduism suffers from - caste.

reservation shouldn't be used if a dalit is well off aa? okay accepted. what should one do to the vacant seats of that quota then? give to general category?

This kind of talk is what means you don't understand the purpose of reservation. 

As long as caste exists, reservation will.

I understand why people are against it too. But your arguments are hollow, and not acceptable to building a modern secular state.

most educated people want reservation system based on social status, not reservation...  also oka sari reservation tho govt job/colg seat vachina vallani theeseyali from reservation quota in future... 

[uttermost]

1 minute ago, chittimallu2 said:

ok maybe I dont know when you came up with that word... 

I didnt say they are suppressed.. .I used your own logic and asked if they are suppressed because someone called them names on an internet forum, just like how you said thats the typical mentality as they called you a dalit or turak... no one really has guts to call someone as "madhigoda" "maloda" or any other derogatory word in India... you will be beaten to pulp...  unless you are wealthy village man and the other dalit guy is a poor farmer who earns 100 rs a day... see where am I going? Its based on wealth class but not caste... 

Why should there be "enough" of them? Isnt one single wealthy dalit (whose ancestors were also using the same benefits and are in wealthy position, thanks to the tax payers) reaping the benefits over a very poor "upper class asshole" a wrong thing in your opinion? 

No. I never made an argument that they are suppressed because someone said something on an online forum. They face discrimination in reality. In TN, where they are denied access to temples, access to village common spaces, and basically denied any respect.

I come from an upper caste family (quite mixed really, but mostly from vaishyas), and all my professionally accomplished uncles use the term 'maalodu' quite liberally even now.

The concept of reservation is not poverty alleviation, but political, structural and economic representation. dalits are identified as 'dalits' as long as caste exists, and they make say 15% of population, so they are given proportional representation.

now if some dalits manage to become wealthy and fill those seats, fine. Its upto their community to fight amongst them and come up with the proposal to implement 'creamy layer' for dalit reservation too. But that 15% of the seats belongs to them. Its their right. Others can't lay a claim to it.

If you are outraged by this (which is possible), you can fight for reservation for your caste too. say your caste is 3%, you'll get 3% reservation, which is probably very less than the percentage of students that gain from the general quota from your caste.

Finally, unless caste ends, reservation will not.

[uttermost]

7 minutes ago, chittimallu2 said:

inko sari ivvaku evadiki nee ID...

not everyone who defends hinduism is hindutva... and moreover I dont see whats wrong with being a "hindutva" ... much better than pseudo seculars and brain dead liberals who find wrong in everything with what hindus celebrate ... im furious about the crackers ban for deepavali... but they dont care about the environment on crackers during IPL matches, weddings, new year's, etc

I don't mind Hindutva. But Hindutva followers (overwhelmingly) seem to have a distaste for dalits, and I think goes against the basic grain of Hindu brotherhood. if the intent is not sharing of public goods, or even destroying of caste borders, then I see no point in political Hindutva.

Not that liberals, dravidianists, communists or whatever ists are better.

I have nothing against Hindu philosophy, and perhaps one of these days i'll get around to reading it. I have a lot of philosopher friends who work on Hindu philosophy.

[chittimallu2]

3 minutes ago, uttermost said:

No. I never made an argument that they are suppressed because someone said something on an online forum. They face discrimination in reality. In TN, where they are denied access to temples, access to village common spaces, and basically denied any respect.

I come from an upper caste family (quite mixed really, but mostly from vaishyas), and all my professionally accomplished uncles use the term 'maalodu' quite liberally even now.

The concept of reservation is not poverty alleviation, but political, structural and economic representation. dalits are identified as 'dalits' as long as caste exists, and they make say 15% of population, so they are given proportional representation.

now if some dalits manage to become wealthy and fill those seats, fine. Its upto their community to fight amongst them and come up with the proposal to implement 'creamy layer' for dalit reservation too. But that 15% of the seats belongs to them. Its their right. Others can't lay a claim to it.

If you are outraged by this (which is possible), you can fight for reservation for your caste too. say your caste is 3%, you'll get 3% reservation, which is probably very less than the percentage of students that gain from the general quota from your caste.

Finally, unless caste ends, reservation will not.

yes few villages lo undi undochu... I didnt deny that and infact i said its not prevelant amongst the educated class anymore... you cant do that in cities or towns and like I already said, if you try to deny access to temples, etc you will be probably beaten to pulp .... small villages is a different story... clearly tells us this is all not caste related really but class related because if its caste related it should be treated the same everywhere... mostly educated folks dont give a toss about caste (except in trivial points and perharps maybe during elections).

yeah people call maalodu.. not sure whats wrong? people call baapanodu, kammodu... whats wrong with that? I agree you should not call anyone by their caste but all im saying is its not exclusive to maalodu or any other dalit...

I wont comment on other stuff because it wont go anywhere and nothing will anyways change back home

[dakumangalsingh]

10 minutes ago, uttermost said:

Christianity is as barbarous as Hinduism. In India it suffers from the same things that Hinduism suffers from - caste.

reservation shouldn't be used if a dalit is well off aa? okay accepted. what should one do to the vacant seats of that quota then? give to general category?

This kind of talk is what means you don't understand the purpose of reservation. 

As long as caste exists, reservation will.

I understand why people are against it too. But your arguments are hollow, and not acceptable to building a modern secular state.

Yeah that's fine how about the Dalits despite having reservations can use general quota ?? How can you argue with this don't they upper castes should be denied of what they actually earned with their intellect (not talking abt rich here ) 

how hollow is reservation system, My knowledge on reservations might be hollow, but I think we both are in the same boat and same level of understanding.

there is roaster/rooster  system in allocating PG medical seats in Telugu states how reservation is doing good to everyone. try to research on that as well. 

 

[chittimallu2]

2 minutes ago, uttermost said:

I don't mind Hindutva. But Hindutva followers (overwhelmingly) seem to have a distaste for dalits, and I think goes against the basic grain of Hindu brotherhood. if the intent is not sharing of public goods, or even destroying of caste borders, then I see no point in political Hindutva.

Not that liberals, dravidianists, communists or whatever ists are better.

I have nothing against Hindu philosophy, and perhaps one of these days i'll get around to reading it. I have a lot of philosopher friends who work on Hindu philosophy.

when you say followers, again you are taking a massive sample and you find a tons of varities in that sample... hence I repeat you cant paint everyone with the same brush...

Im not a  staunch hindutva follower, but I like to read and I think RM makes some greatly valid points on how many factors and forces tried and are still trying to destroy the culture and basic roots of india... Im not a supporter of left or right but I like the good concepts of both.

[dakumangalsingh]

3 minutes ago, chittimallu2 said:

yes few villages lo undi undochu... I didnt deny that and infact i said its not prevelant amongst the educated class anymore... you cant do that in cities or towns and like I already said, if you try to deny access to temples, etc you will be probably beaten to pulp .... small villages is a different story... clearly tells us this is all not caste related really but class related because if its caste related it should be treated the same everywhere... mostly educated folks dont give a toss about caste (except in trivial points and perharps maybe during elections).

yeah people call maalodu.. not sure whats wrong? people call baapanodu, kammodu... whats wrong with that? I agree you should not call anyone by their caste but all im saying is its not exclusive to maalodu or any other dalit...

I wont comment on other stuff because it wont go anywhere and nothing will anyways change back home

Malodu is taken negative way the way we take nigga/black here.

ade if we say white/ komatodu no offense. Daniki reasoning ledu 

[uttermost]

1 minute ago, dakumangalsingh said:

Yeah that's fine how about the Dalits despite having reservations can use general quota ?? How can you argue with this don't they upper castes should be denied of what they actually earned with their intellect (not talking abt rich here ) 

how hollow is reservation system, My knowledge on reservations might be hollow, but I think we both are in the same boat and same level of understanding.

there is roaster/rooster  system in allocating PG medical seats in Telugu states how reservation is doing good to everyone. try to research on that as well. 

General quota is available to the general population, so they use it. It looks like you are arguing technicalities here. Not many dalits get through the general quota, so lets talk about it if there are enough numbers. Either way, its good that dalits are moving up the social ladder.

What is this 'intellect'? Acing exams doesn't equate to intellect.

I have never talked about reservation for PG seats. Its a tricky thing because there are so few seats, and its silly if reservation is applied to it.

I'm talking of reservation to graduate education, and govt jobs. The present reservation system may need tinkering in the OBC category, but not the dalit category. Their reservation is completely deserved. 

[uttermost]

6 minutes ago, chittimallu2 said:

when you say followers, again you are taking a massive sample and you find a tons of varities in that sample... hence I repeat you cant paint everyone with the same brush...

Im not a  staunch hindutva follower, but I like to read and I think RM makes some greatly valid points on how many factors and forces tried and are still trying to destroy the culture and basic roots of india... Im not a supporter of left or right but I like the good concepts of both.

I urge you to talk to your Hindutva friends, and see their stand on dalit issues.

Their stand is that dalits should integrate into Hinduism, and come into the mainstream. How this will happen, and how they will facilitate it will never be explained. Its upto the dalits to do that. Most of them do it by sucking up to hindutva. and even then, they can never be treated as equal.

the point is dalit issues will never be seen as an urgent issue to solve. This problem exists in all isms, not just Hiindutva in India. I talk about Hindutva because this db is full of them. The common thread in all these isms are the upper caste. except dravidianism, which was driven by middle castes, but are no better than other isms.

[chittimallu2]

2 minutes ago, uttermost said:

I urge you to talk to your Hindutva friends, and see their stand on dalit issues.

Their stand is that dalits should integrate into Hinduism, and come into the mainstream. How this will happen, and how they will facilitate it will never be explained. Its upto the dalits to do that. Most of them do it by sucking up to hindutva. and even then, they can never be treated as equal.

the point is dalit issues will never be seen as an urgent issue to solve. This problem exists in all isms, not just Hiindutva in India. I talk about Hindutva because this db is full of them. The common thread in all these isms are the upper caste. except dravidianism, which was driven by middle castes, but are no better than other isms.

let me talk to you only about this DB then... this DB is full of middle class engineers (not talking about caste but social status)... most of them have seen their friends/mates who are dalits, who must have been lazy enough to fool around without any hard work but yet get a decent seat of their choice in a good college and probably with full or partial fee waiver... they were all friends and are about the same level socio economic wise... ofcourse in that case it irks them... whats this to do with hindutva here? Like i keep saying again and again you are confusing between caste and socio economic classes here.. they are not really against dalits here, but they are pissed that someone who didnt move their arse to prepare for exams and have probably scored way lower than them get to go to a better college than them with a fee waiver and payment towards their accomodation and meals.... before this instance they were friends/class mates and these "upper class DB assholes"  never thought about the caste and havent tried to downgrade them because they are dalits... 

Again the above scenario is strictly about the "Hindutvas" you talk about who are plenty in this DB... clearly they are not hindutva followers, just pissed off people. No matter how much you rant about how few small village big heads are not letting dalits enter the temple and for that reason you give dalits a right to take a seat in college for free despite not eligible, they wont accept that and agree with that... so you better move on 

[uttermost]

36 minutes ago, chittimallu2 said:

inko sari ivvaku evadiki nee ID...

not everyone who defends hinduism is hindutva... and moreover I dont see whats wrong with being a "hindutva" ... much better than pseudo seculars and brain dead liberals who find wrong in everything with what hindus celebrate ... im furious about the crackers ban for deepavali... but they dont care about the environment on crackers during IPL matches, weddings, new year's, etc

I didn't realise psycopk was this reactionary. I didn't see him reacting to worse things said about others in this forum, but acted so swiftly when someone said it to him. He probably deserved whatever was thrown at him.

Its pathetic that being an admin he writes provocatively to the extent that a guy argued with me on pms' for about 3-4 days trying to convince me that I should take him on, and deliberated whether using my id was a good idea.

I encouraged him to do so. No hard feelings.

[chittimallu2]

Just now, uttermost said:

I didn't realise psycopk was this reactionary. I didn't see him reacting to worse things said about others in this forum, but acted so swiftly when someone said it to him. He probably deserved whatever was thrown at him.

Its pathetic that being an admin he writes provocatively to the extent that a guy argued with me on pms' for about 3-4 days trying to convince me that I should take him on, and deliberated whether using my id was a good idea.

I encouraged him to do so. No hard feelings.

lol... ninnu ila vaadukuntunnara DB lo janam 

[uttermost]

5 minutes ago, chittimallu2 said:

let me talk to you only about this DB then... this DB is full of middle class engineers (not talking about caste but social status)... most of them have seen their friends/mates who are dalits, who must have been lazy enough to fool around without any hard work but yet get a decent seat of their choice in a good college and probably with full or partial fee waiver... they were all friends and are about the same level socio economic wise... ofcourse in that case it irks them... whats this to do with hindutva here? Like i keep saying again and again you are confusing between caste and socio economic classes here.. they are not really against dalits here, but they are pissed that someone who didnt move their arse to prepare for exams and have probably scored way lower than them get to go to a better college than them with a fee waiver and payment towards their accomodation and meals.... before this instance they were friends/class mates and these "upper class DB assholes"  never thought about the caste and havent tried to downgrade them because they are dalits... 

Again the above scenario is strictly about the "Hindutvas" you talk about who are plenty in this DB... clearly they are not hindutva followers, just pissed off people. No matter how much you rant about how few small village big heads are not letting dalits enter the temple and for that reason you give dalits a right to take a seat in college for free despite not eligible, they wont accept that and agree with that... so you better move on 

Nah. like I said. reservation is not a poverty alleviation scheme. If there were enough dalits to fill 15% seats in a straight battle, there wouldn't be reservation for them.

There are not enough dalits to fill those seats, so personal anecdotes about a rich lazy dalit friend who got in through reservation just feeds into propaganda, if it is true in their personal case.

The truth is that dalits are unable to compete, and as a nation state, it is India's duty to lend them a helping hand. Reservation is a pittance compared to what businessmen swindle in the name of cooperative societies, and contracts that go nowhere.

Its obvious that middle class lack the courage to take on the bigwigs and hence complain about the weakest section of the society.

 

[uttermost]

6 minutes ago, chittimallu2 said:

lol... ninnu ila vaadukuntunnara DB lo janam 

I never understood why people were so angry with psycopk. Now I do.

he routinely abuses his power, and mocks them after doing so.