effects of HR 392 IV Bill

[tennisluvr]

Just now, uttermost said:

All this is like applying burnol to a 3rd degree burn.

the only way to decrease immigration is to increase tax rates for high earners. Everything will settle down, including people who will chose to live in other countries without crowding out the US.

but it won't happen. And there you are right, the corporates won't let it happen.

Yes there's no going back. The system is broken down, no amount of burnol can heal the wound now. It might soothe it temporarily but will never heal it. 

Best to consider other options if you don't want to consider living a life like a corporate wage slave. 

[uttermost]

2 minutes ago, tennisluvr said:

Yes there's no going back. The system is broken down, no amount of burnol can heal the wound now. It might soothe it temporarily but will never heal it. 

Best to consider other options if you don't want to consider living a life like a corporate wage slave. 

US is the lone star in the world, with low living costs, and high income earning capacity. if they hit that sweet spot, immigration can be controlled. simple.

anyway, US power was at its highest, in the 60s, 70s, when the tax rates about 3 times the current rates.

since the economy is now consumption based, every country is trying its best to attract corporates. US does it in the most brazen way, inspite of being among the most developed country. but then, again politics reminds them that they can't go the whole way in surrendering to corporates, so they create a system like Eb1c which corporates can exploit, and they can look the other way.

[uttermost]

15 minutes ago, Optimus654 said:

Bruh. Corporates DO NOT like it the way it is. Eb1c abuse is by WITCHES to circumvent the h1b lottery. I have friends working in high tech and investment banking. Their employers want to retain them here but are either unable to get a visa for them in lottery or  promise a GC on time. So they are sending them to Europe or Asia for an year and getting them back to file in eb1. American Corporates are jumping through hoops to get this done. they do not like to do it . But they are being forced now due to unavailability of h1b and GC visas.Minimum wage for an exceptional international tech manager should be set to weed out the scrap. In my mind, this proposal will gain traction as there is already noise to raise the wage for h1b workers.

so you say Indian companies abuse this Eb1c, but who are these Indian companies working for? Everybody is part of the system no?

may be startups, and investment banks who hire directly face problems because of this system. looks like the rest of the corporate set up is comfortable with this. If they weren't, it would have been long gone.

[tennisluvr]

5 minutes ago, uttermost said:

so you say Indian companies abuse this Eb1c, but who are these Indian companies working for? Everybody is part of the system no?

may be startups, and investment banks who hire directly face problems because of this system. looks like the rest of the corporate set up is comfortable with this. If they weren't, it would have been long gone.

Exactly, for the most part the corporates are very comfortable with this setup. IT won't be going out anytime soon. 

[Optimus654]

23 minutes ago, tennisluvr said:

The corporates are using it, that's the crux of the matter. They are being forced to use it rather which they would rather not do to begin with. If the EB1C abuse hadn't happened they wouldn't be forced to use this process is what he wanted to convey. 

Correct.

[phatposts]

58 minutes ago, Optimus654 said:

Read it twice brother. Would like to respectfully disagree with both the author and you.

1. No per country cap , one time waiver and reclaiming unused visas will lead to homogenous population. There will be no more ethnic mix in the field of technology and medicine with the assumption that almost all of the population in waiting line is from India or China.

2. Lifting per country cap will cause consternation with countries other than India and China . Their versions of sushma swarajs will start lobbying against the bill.

3. One time relief is like throwing a grenade into the job market. Oka 400k Indians ki green cards vasthayi. Consulting companies will suppress wages horribly at least for the short term.

4. Per country cap theesina kooda if the 1,2,3 employment based categories are retained, Indian witch companies will gobble up the eb1 visas.

5. In my mind, eb1c abuse is the root cause. Decades long taxes kaduthunna janalu decades ago vacchharu. The reason they are yet to get visa is because of eb1 abuse.labor plus 5 years used to be the untold norm for getting a green card in eb2. It was 7-8 years for eb3.

6. I believe in organic growth. You get in line, do your time and earn your card. These one time waivers do not go away even if they materialize. They are like hand outs or entitlements. You can only give. You can not take back.

7. Fake certificates tho BCA degrees tho ulfa qa job chesthunna WITCH ki 1.5 years lo GC vasthey ragilipothundi kadupulo. These type of  guys will obviously give out a no skills menial impression when they go work for an American employer. I believe this is only adding to the impression that not all Indians here are highly skilled.

 

Would definitely like to hear what is your opinion on eb1c abuse.

 

Eb1c abuse is definitely there. I am not a fan of that either. Kaani eb1c abuse aagadam vallana eb2/3 dates munduku veltayi annadi chala incorrect assumption dude. 

Let us say eb1c abuse is nonexistent. Under ideal circumstances, eb2+eb3 will get 9800 GCs per year. And USCIS is counting dependents in that 9800 pool which was not supposed to be the case. Assuming every primary applicant has 2 dependents (1 spouse + 1 child), on an avg only 3300 primary applicants' dates move forward. If avg number crunch is any stat, there are 700K+ primary applicants in queue. The irony is USCIS itself doesnt know how many are in the pipeline. Nee lekka prakaram eb1c abuse mottaniki aagipoyindi anukundam, then how long will it take to clear the backlog at the rate of 3300 primary applicants per year?

Asalu actual fix cheyyataniki veellaku opika undadu kabatte, ee one time fix la gola antha kooda. 

My only argument is, H1b, F1, L1 ki leni 7% cap GC ki enduku? If those are perm temp statuses why are they collecting SSN & medicare taxes from temp folks. I am all OK to pay Federal & State taxes. 

And to everyone's point CAP teeeseste mottam India mayam avutundi anna concept kooda I agree. But why not recapture left over GCs after all the countries are served. US yearly 1 million GCs issue chestundi. Andulo 140K is employment based (EB1 thru 5). Migata 860K is family, refugee etc. Andulo CAP enduku ledu mari? Hypothetically Repu china lo political assylum situation vaste mottam 860K GCs China ki potayi. Adi OK na?

 

If we do not speak up and ask we will always continue in this indenture servitude. 

[uttermost]

2 minutes ago, phatposts said:

Eb1c abuse is definitely there. I am not a fan of that either. Kaani eb1c abuse aagadam vallana eb2/3 dates munduku veltayi annadi chala incorrect assumption dude. 

Let us say eb1c abuse is nonexistent. Under ideal circumstances, eb2+eb3 will get 9800 GCs per year. And USCIS is counting dependents in that 9800 pool which was not supposed to be the case. Assuming every primary applicant has 2 dependents (1 spouse + 1 child), on an avg only 3300 primary applicants' dates move forward. If avg number crunch is any stat, there are 700K+ primary applicants in queue. The irony is USCIS itself doesnt know how many are in the pipeline. Nee lekka prakaram eb1c abuse mottaniki aagipoyindi anukundam, then how long will it take to clear the backlog at the rate of 3300 primary applicants per year?

Asalu actual fix cheyyataniki veellaku opika undadu kabatte, ee one time fix la gola antha kooda. 

My only argument is, H1b, F1, L1 ki leni 7% cap GC ki enduku? If those are perm statuses why are they collecting SSN & medicare taxes from temp folks. I am all OK to pay Federal & State taxes. 

And to everyone's point CAP teeeseste mottam India mayam avutundi anna concept kooda I agree. But why not recapture left over GCs after all the countries are served. US yearly 1 million GCs issue chestundi. Andulo 140K is employment based (EB1 thru 5). Migata 860K is family, refugee etc. Andulo CAP enduku ledu mari? Hypothetically Repu china lo political assylum situation vaste mottam 860K GCs China ki potayi. Adi OK na?

 

If we do not speak up and ask we will always continue in this indenture servitude. 

Good question.

[Optimus654]

12 minutes ago, uttermost said:

so you say Indian companies abuse this Eb1c, but who are these Indian companies working for? Everybody is part of the system no?

may be startups, and investment banks who hire directly face problems because of this system. looks like the rest of the corporate set up is comfortable with this. If they weren't, it would have been long gone.

14 minutes ago, uttermost said:

so you say Indian companies abuse this Eb1c, but who are these Indian companies working for? Everybody is part of the system no?

may be startups, and investment banks who hire directly face problems because of this system. looks like the rest of the corporate set up is comfortable with this. If they weren't, it would have been long gone.

Then I wonder why didn't the corporates start this abuse long time ago. Why the spike in eb1c applications from 2013? Witches started and propagated this vile idea after h1b lottery started getting way too many applications. Please check out the numbers. I am not supporting the corporates using it. All I am saying is set a salary limit and then see the benefits . American Corporates who go through hoops to get eb1 for their employees also pay those employees pretty well. So they wouldn't mind with a minimum salary. Witches can not and will not pay in most cases. Your visas will free up and the queue will move.

[tennisluvr]

8 minutes ago, phatposts said:

Eb1c abuse is definitely there. I am not a fan of that either. Kaani eb1c abuse aagadam vallana eb2/3 dates munduku veltayi annadi chala incorrect assumption dude. 

Let us say eb1c abuse is nonexistent. Under ideal circumstances, eb2+eb3 will get 9800 GCs per year. And USCIS is counting dependents in that 9800 pool which was not supposed to be the case. Assuming every primary applicant has 2 dependents (1 spouse + 1 child), on an avg only 3300 primary applicants' dates move forward. If avg number crunch is any stat, there are 700K+ primary applicants in queue. The irony is USCIS itself doesnt know how many are in the pipeline. Nee lekka prakaram eb1c abuse mottaniki aagipoyindi anukundam, then how long will it take to clear the backlog at the rate of 3300 primary applicants per year?

Asalu actual fix cheyyataniki veellaku opika undadu kabatte, ee one time fix la gola antha kooda. 

My only argument is, H1b, F1, L1 ki leni 7% cap GC ki enduku? If those are perm statuses why are they collecting SSN & medicare taxes from temp folks. I am all OK to pay Federal & State taxes. 

And to everyone's point CAP teeeseste mottam India mayam avutundi anna concept kooda I agree. But why not recapture left over GCs after all the countries are served. US yearly 1 million GCs issue chestundi. Andulo 140K is employment based (EB1 thru 5). Migata 860K is family, refugee etc. Andulo CAP enduku ledu mari? Hypothetically Repu china lo political assylum situation vaste mottam 860K GCs China ki potayi. Adi OK na?

 

If we do not speak up and ask we will always continue in this indenture servitude. 

Valid points, the dependents were never supposed to be counted in the cap yet they are continuing to do so inspite of knowing fully well that it's not supposed to be that way. 

The USCIS argument is that H1Bs, L1s are dual intent visas so that's why they are collecting medicare and SSN taxes from them. However, look at it this way if you have lived in the US for long enough to accumulate 40 points(typically 10 years) you are eligible to receive SSN and medicare paybacks after you turn 62. So their perspective is that H1B and L1's aren't temp folks since it's a dual intent visa. 

[uttermost]

2 minutes ago, Optimus654 said:

Then I wonder why didn't the corporates start this abuse long time ago. Why the spike in eb1c applications from 2013? Witches started and propagated this vile idea after h1b lottery started getting way too many applications. Please check out the numbers. I am not supporting the corporates using it. All I am saying is set a salary limit and then see the benefits . American Corporates who go through hoops to get eb1 for their employees also pay those employees pretty well. So they wouldn't mind with a minimum salary. Witches can not and will not pay in most cases. Your visas will free up and the queue will move.

may be because the economy changed from 2013. with corporates needing a lot of Indian labour and not wanting to directly hire them because they don't want permanent employees on their payroll.

As far as numbers go, almost 90% of the jobs created in the US market in the past 5years are temp jobs. That's how the economy is today. UK has the same issue.

The American corporates who would benefit from the system you propose must be a minority, because you are underestimating the lobbying power of these corporates. If the system is not to their liking, they can change it.

I'll stop here, because I'm talking out of my arse. I'm not an h1b holder, and have never held any immigrant visa in the US. I'm just commenting on what's written here. S0rry if I have understood the whole thing wrong. take care.

[Optimus654]

10 minutes ago, phatposts said:

Eb1c abuse is definitely there. I am not a fan of that either. Kaani eb1c abuse aagadam vallana eb2/3 dates munduku veltayi annadi chala incorrect assumption dude. 

Let us say eb1c abuse is nonexistent. Under ideal circumstances, eb2+eb3 will get 9800 GCs per year. And USCIS is counting dependents in that 9800 pool which was not supposed to be the case. Assuming every primary applicant has 2 dependents (1 spouse + 1 child), on an avg only 3300 primary applicants' dates move forward. If avg number crunch is any stat, there are 700K+ primary applicants in queue. The irony is USCIS itself doesnt know how many are in the pipeline. Nee lekka prakaram eb1c abuse mottaniki aagipoyindi anukundam, then how long will it take to clear the backlog at the rate of 3300 primary applicants per year?

Asalu actual fix cheyyataniki veellaku opika undadu kabatte, ee one time fix la gola antha kooda. 

My only argument is, H1b, F1, L1 ki leni 7% cap GC ki enduku? If those are perm temp statuses why are they collecting SSN & medicare taxes from temp folks. I am all OK to pay Federal & State taxes. 

And to everyone's point CAP teeeseste mottam India mayam avutundi anna concept kooda I agree. But why not recapture left over GCs after all the countries are served. US yearly 1 million GCs issue chestundi. Andulo 140K is employment based (EB1 thru 5). Migata 860K is family, refugee etc. Andulo CAP enduku ledu mari? Hypothetically Repu china lo political assylum situation vaste mottam 860K GCs China ki potayi. Adi OK na?

 

If we do not speak up and ask we will always continue in this indenture servitude. 

1. I second you in suggestion to not include the dependents in visa numbers. Totally agree with you on this.

2. Eb1 to 2 spill over used to be upwards of 5k in good years. That is one hell of a number. Cutting the abuse WILL move the queue assuming we go back to those spill over numbers.

3. Getting unused visas will again go to Indians or Chinese as they are the ones in waiting list.

4.would need to read up in that asylum numbers . Giving all those gcs to people from one country some how does not seem plausible .

[phatposts]

5 minutes ago, tennisluvr said:

Valid points, the dependents were never supposed to be counted in the cap yet they are continuing to do so inspite of knowing fully well that it's not supposed to be that way. 

The USCIS argument is that H1Bs, L1s are dual intent visas so that's why they are collecting medicare and SSN taxes from them. However, look at it this way if you have lived in the US for long enough to accumulate 40 points(typically 10 years) you are eligible to receive SSN and medicare paybacks after you turn 62. So their perspective is that H1B and L1's aren't temp folks since it's a dual intent visa. 

62 vachaka GC vaste enti raaka pote enti.

If that is a dual intent visa, then stop treating us as temporary people. 

So nenu age 22 appudu US ki vacha. Vere vaadu 52 appudu US ki vachadu anukundam. I pay taxes for 40 years to get benefits, the other person will get the some payback after 10 years. Fairness edi?

This one I am not 100% sure - For you to get SSN & Medicare eligibility after 40 points, both countries ki madhyalo edo mutual agreement undali. India & US ki madhyalo adi unda? I mean without GC can I avail SSN & Medicare benefits assuming I have those 40 points and past age 62?

 

[phatposts]

3 minutes ago, Optimus654 said:

1. I second you in suggestion to not include the dependents in visa numbers. Totally agree with you on this.

2. Eb1 to 2 spill over used to be upwards of 5k in good years. That is one hell of a number. Cutting the abuse WILL move the queue assuming we go back to those spill over numbers.

3. Getting unused visas will again go to Indians or Chinese as they are the ones in waiting list.

4.would need to read up in that asylum numbers . Giving all those gcs to people from one country some how does not seem plausible .

Spill over aina 5K (assuming), open pool lo ki veltaya, malli daaniki kooda 7% cap untunda? I do not know and that is why I am asking.

[tennisluvr]

9 minutes ago, phatposts said:

62 vachaka GC vaste enti raaka pote enti.

If that is a dual intent visa, then stop treating us as temporary people. 

So nenu age 22 appudu US ki vacha. Vere vaadu 52 appudu US ki vachadu anukundam. I pay taxes for 40 years to get benefits, the other person will get the some payback after 10 years. Fairness edi?

This one I am not 100% sure - For you to get SSN & Medicare eligibility after 40 points, both countries ki madhyalo edo mutual agreement undali. India & US ki madhyalo adi unda? I mean without GC can I avail SSN & Medicare benefits assuming I have those 40 points and past age 62?

 

Yes you can, you will receive SSN and medicare benefits after you turn 67(standard) or 62(early opt out) depending on how much you've been able to contribute over the years to the SSN system. So someone that came here at the age of 52 and contributed for 10 years won't receive the same amount as you would since you've been contributing since 40 years at that time. He will certainly receive lesser. 

You can even calculate the amount you would receive by registering on ssn.gov website. I have done and checked the same as well. 

[Optimus654]

15 minutes ago, phatposts said:

Spill over aina 5K (assuming), open pool lo ki veltaya, malli daaniki kooda 7% cap untunda? I do not know and that is why I am asking.

They will go into open pool for eb1 retrogressed countries e.g. China and India, then to eb2 worldwide, then to eb2 retrogressed countries e.g. india and China again. So if eb1 India numbers are low, the unused will go into eb2 India.not all of them. But conisderbale number of them. Will find out more on this.