Lol Ramdev

[aakathaai]

Just now, SilentStriker said:

 

baa 

[SilentStriker]

1 minute ago, aakathaai said:

baa 

baa

[chittimallu2]

1 minute ago, uttermost said:

Check the stats on Indian jails. 10 to 1 it is populated by dalits and minorities, sent for small crimes like pickpocketing.

Indian mainstream society can easily exclude minorities (since you don't want to talk about caste) from the mainstream easily. refusing to rent to them pushing them into ghettos, refusing basic civil amenities to those ghettos through corporations, branding any and every muslim organization as potential terrorism, no sharing of political power which affects their ability to build lasting financial networks to bring their own people out of poverty. Ofcourse muslims are not the only groups suffering in India from this.

"until the last few years" means sure, society is constantly changing, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. you seem to talk away society changing for the worse (Indian excuse for Hindutva shenanigans) as part of life. It need not be. It can be challenged, even if cool people like @alpachinao will mock you for it as impractical.

its just what they do, because they are not affected by that kind of change. other people are. so fcuk them. They will be affected by other kind of change (in the opposite direction). so let them have that change. everyone should be bothered, and cannot just sit on their presumed 'accomplishment' of building a country like India.

 

Why cant they be actual culprits? What evidences do you have to prove they are all innocent. Im not denying there wouldnt be any ill treatment by the police but dont act like it only happens in India because of the hindu majority. Its the same case in the US with blacks... in short, its human nature to take advantage of some classes. All Im saying is its much better in India though.

Refusing rent is a personal choice, very stupid argument linking that up to bigger picture to the whole country. Not just majorities or upper castes, anyone can deny rental property to anyone. Richer getting richer and poor getting poorer is a different story, again nothing to do with muslims being "suppressed" by the hindu majority.

Until the last few years concept. Dont you see a trend here? Why is it getting worse for everyone and everywhere? Maybe like I said it is only possible in a Utopian land? If its possible it would have been in practice somewhere. overall the whole earth is suffering from over population, everyone wants their share of the pie so there are things like this that will happen. 

 

[chittimallu2]

1 hour ago, uttermost said:

It happened in a lot of places. Wales, Ireland, Scotland are independently governed within the UK.

India can create such federated systems, and not impose imperial tax system like GST (which every state CM happily accepted). such is the level of intelligent discourse towards freedom in India.

Christians are much better off (apart from the dalit converts). lets talk just about muslims. because other minority communities are well off, and have 'respect' in India. muslims are denied their place in India. and they don't have the resources to build networks that can help them, also they are a huge community (inspite of lots of divisions among them).

muslims breed as much as hindus do, in India. even if there's a difference, the difference is too minute. check bihar, UP fertility rates. 

the consensus is poverty leads to more breeding. Not religion.

Doesnt have to be positive all the time, what happened to the USSR after breaking up into independent nations and governments. I dont think thats the solution.

I have no idea about taxation so I will skip this part.

Muslims have reservations and get Haj subsisdies... what else "more" do they want to build whatever you are claiming. If they all dont have 10+ children then they might have economically good life, Isnt that one of their main problems or are you going to call me a bigot for saying the truth now about the 10+ kids per family.

Muslims breed as much hindus do, no way Im believing this. Im yet to meet a family of hindus in this generation with 4+ kids while I have seen plenty of muslim families in hyderabad with atleast 6 or more kids, heck I have friends who have over 5 siblings.

 

[chittimallu2]

1 hour ago, uttermost said:

I'm not ranting against majority in India. I'm only ranting against people in power in India. They are not the majority. majority of those in power happen to be Hindus. thats all.

 

means nothing, what has owaisi done for the old city despite being in power for so long? Dont even start the nonsense saying he doesnt have the control since the central and state govts doesnt belong to his party. Why hasnt the slums in old city been improved? clearly he (and his party)  is from a minority community who has been in the power for decades

[uttermost]

1 minute ago, chittimallu2 said:

Why cant they be actual culprits? What evidences do you have to prove they are all innocent. Im not denying there wouldnt be any ill treatment by the police but dont act like it only happens in India because of the hindu majority. Its the same case in the US with blacks... in short, its human nature to take advantage of some classes. All Im saying is its much better in India though.

Refusing rent is a personal choice, very stupid argument linking that up to bigger picture to the whole country. Not just majorities or upper castes, anyone can deny rental property to anyone. Richer getting richer and poor getting poorer is a different story, again nothing to do with muslims being "suppressed" by the hindu majority.

Until the last few years concept. Dont you see a trend here? Why is it getting worse for everyone and everywhere? Maybe like I said it is only possible in a Utopian land? If its possible it would have been in practice somewhere. overall the whole earth is suffering from over population, everyone wants their share of the pie so there are things like this that will happen. 

its not about them being culprits, but about them facing little terms in jail (say 6 months) for small things like pickpocketing, which opens them up to the criminal world and sets up a vicious cycle from which they can never recover. they keep going back to prison.

Refusing to rent is discrimination, whether its personal choice or group decision. Anyone can deny renting to anyone, but such denial doesn't affect certain castes. it affects others.

yes, muslims are economically and socially suppressed by Hindus in India.

I know all these can be rationalized with competition for resources. But its still unfair to the people on the other side. you can't just tell them to suck up and play ball with nationalism.

lets take an example. an upper class muslim friend of yours pisses you off with his religion based nuttery and ranting (i don't deny that there are absolute nutcases in muslim uppercastes), and you take that and expand into 'muslims are nutty because this fellow has all the privilege, and is still ranting against Hindus as if they are oppressed by us'. 

Which is fair. Yes, just like uppercaste Hindus, there are upperclass muslims with blind spots to their worldview. And criticism of them is fair.

but when you apply it to the overall muslim population, and try to deny that something insidious is being done to muslims overall in India, you are simply neglecting lots of facts.

[uttermost]

Just now, chittimallu2 said:

means nothing, what has owaisi done for the old city despite being in power for so long? Dont even start the nonsense saying he doesnt have the control since the central and state govts doesnt belong to his party. Why hasnt the slums in old city been improved? clearly he (and his party)  is from a minority community who has been in the power for decades

How much of the Hyderabad city budget that Owaisi controls? do you really think that Hyd city functions independently of the whole state?

[chittimallu2]

1 hour ago, uttermost said:

govt can treat them equal to Hindus, which is impossible because the only way govt (this govt or the congress one) holds power is by excluding them or treating them as separate.

mainstream society can give up its bigotry towards them.

both are not going to happen. 

actually the least anyone can do is admit the country has a problem. I know people agree that minorities are a problem, but defend every action against them as good.

its easier to engage with people like @alpachinao who simply hate everything about muslims and are not worried about being fair to them, than people who don't understand whether the system they defend is actually fair or not, but still want to support the system blindly.

if more people were like @alpachinao, it becomes easy for muslims to ask for separate territory. But most of them insist that the system is fair, and are blind to what muslims face everyday (as a group), so this.

When you say treat equal to hindus, do you want the govt to take away the reservations and haj subsidies? Im actually fine with that, yeah lets go ahead and treat every citizen equal.

By mainstream bigotry if you mean renting out houses to them etc, then that wont happen because thats clearly not bigotry, they dont like some of their habits.

I personally dont hate anyone, I never post anything related to this stuff and I was only replying in this thread because I did not find a mistake in that guy saying that statement in the video in first page. 

Why will muslims get another territory? Their forefathers had their share and named it pakistan, they are more than welcome if they want to clean themselves out and live there. Pretty sure many folks would be happy to pay for their one way train/bus/air fare.

 

You are yet to prove the system is unfair to them. All I hear from you is that they are illtreated because "1 in 10" (dont know where you pulled this number from) of the arrested are muslims/minorities. And people dont rent their places to them and no one helps them to build their network... Yeah the sky is falling on them because they have resverations and also subsidies to go pray in their holy land... cry me a river mate.

[uttermost]

4 minutes ago, chittimallu2 said:

Doesnt have to be positive all the time, what happened to the USSR after breaking up into independent nations and governments. I dont think thats the solution.

I have no idea about taxation so I will skip this part.

Muslims have reservations and get Haj subsisdies... what else "more" do they want to build whatever you are claiming. If they all dont have 10+ children then they might have economically good life, Isnt that one of their main problems or are you going to call me a bigot for saying the truth now about the 10+ kids per family.

Muslims breed as much hindus do, no way Im believing this. Im yet to meet a family of hindus in this generation with 4+ kids while I have seen plenty of muslim families in hyderabad with atleast 6 or more kids, heck I have friends who have over 5 siblings.

I didn't call for breaking up for anything, although I don't mind if it happens.

I'm only calling for more localised power. substructures that can control their own fate, without having to mortgage everything to the center.

muslims don't have reservations in all states. Haj subsidy is bullshit. Hindus also subsidized for manasarovar yatra. it's just like YSR's arogyasri scheme to line private operators pockets by the govt. money is not handed to people.

you don't have to believe. just casual look at the fertility rates is enough. kerala with 20% muslims has a fertility rates of around 1.2

and Madhyapradesh with 3-4% muslims has fertility of 4. so how come Hindus in MP make more babies than muslims in kerala? Its poverty.

[uttermost]

1 minute ago, chittimallu2 said:

When you say treat equal to hindus, do you want the govt to take away the reservations and haj subsidies? Im actually fine with that, yeah lets go ahead and treat every citizen equal.

By mainstream bigotry if you mean renting out houses to them etc, then that wont happen because thats clearly not bigotry, they dont like some of their habits.

I personally dont hate anyone, I never post anything related to this stuff and I was only replying in this thread because I did not find a mistake in that guy saying that statement in the video in first page. 

Why will muslims get another territory? Their forefathers had their share and named it pakistan, they are more than welcome if they want to clean themselves out and live there. Pretty sure many folks would be happy to pay for their one way train/bus/air fare.

 

You are yet to prove the system is unfair to them. All I hear from you is that they are illtreated because "1 in 10" (dont know where you pulled this number from) of the arrested are muslims/minorities. And people dont rent their places to them and no one helps them to build their network... Yeah the sky is falling on them because they have resverations and also subsidies to go pray in their holy land... cry me a river mate.

because population transfer is a human disaster. just imagine the logistics of moving millions of people from one place (where they have networks) to a completely new place.

I'm sure this 'we gave them territory' works as good thought experiment, but in reality, people won't move.

Okay. what are the options for a muslim if he wants to give up Islam in India. Will the Hindu society embrace him/her? under what caste. 

yes, the sky has already crushed them. we don't notice it, because we are walking on clouds. we don't even allow a muslim to criticize our nation without reminding him of his terrorist buddies. that's how awesome we are.

[chittimallu2]

6 minutes ago, uttermost said:

its not about them being culprits, but about them facing little terms in jail (say 6 months) for small things like pickpocketing, which opens them up to the criminal world and sets up a vicious cycle from which they can never recover. they keep going back to prison.

Refusing to rent is discrimination, whether its personal choice or group decision. Anyone can deny renting to anyone, but such denial doesn't affect certain castes. it affects others.

yes, muslims are economically and socially suppressed by Hindus in India.

I know all these can be rationalized with competition for resources. But its still unfair to the people on the other side. you can't just tell them to suck up and play ball with nationalism.

lets take an example. an upper class muslim friend of yours pisses you off with his religion based nuttery and ranting (i don't deny that there are absolute nutcases in muslim uppercastes), and you take that and expand into 'muslims are nutty because this fellow has all the privilege, and is still ranting against Hindus as if they are oppressed by us'. 

Which is fair. Yes, just like uppercaste Hindus, there are upperclass muslims with blind spots to their worldview. And criticism of them is fair.

but when you apply it to the overall muslim population, and try to deny that something insidious is being done to muslims overall in India, you are simply neglecting lots of facts.

Exactly how it goes with minorities in the US and many other countries. Just proves my point that there is a trend and its not all rosy everywhere else except in one country where the hindus are the majorities. 

Well they have the right to refuse. Pretty sure they own the property but not the ones requesting the space.

A statement without any proof means nothing

Ofcourse, you that is how it should be. Let them compete man, who is stopping them. Do you expect the govt to sit beside them and help them with every single thing. They were given tools in the form of reservation and other financial support. You still havent answered what else needs to be done by the govt. 

Im not trying to paint everyone with a single brush here. 

Im still open to discuss the facts you claim to exist. Show me how are muslims (lower class ones) are specifically suppressed by the hindu majority and their govt. 

 

[SilentStriker]

nice happened

[chittimallu2]

11 minutes ago, uttermost said:

How much of the Hyderabad city budget that Owaisi controls? do you really think that Hyd city functions independently of the whole state?

Absolutely not, but is that your only excuse? Clearly a minority leader would want to fight his tooth and nail for the upliftment of his people as per your logic? 

[SilentStriker]

ram dev baba

[SilentStriker]

half cut bulla