Lol Ramdev

[uttermost]

1 minute ago, chittimallu2 said:

Exactly how it goes with minorities in the US and many other countries. Just proves my point that there is a trend and its not all rosy everywhere else except in one country where the hindus are the majorities. 

Well they have the right to refuse. Pretty sure they own the property but not the ones requesting the space.

A statement without any proof means nothing

Ofcourse, you that is how it should be. Let them compete man, who is stopping them. Do you expect the govt to sit beside them and help them with every single thing. They were given tools in the form of reservation and other financial support. You still havent answered what else needs to be done by the govt. 

Im not trying to paint everyone with a single brush here. 

Im still open to discuss the facts you claim to exist. Show me how are muslims (lower class ones) are specifically suppressed by the hindu majority and their govt. 

they have the right to refuse to individuals, sure. say - this guy was too arrogant when he came to look for the property, this guy doesn't make enough to pay rent on time, this guy has too many kids, etc.

but if you have a blanket reason for refusal - this guy is muslim, this guy is dalit, then that is discrimination.

They are competing man. They are not sitting and crying. While competing, they are also fighting for their legitimate rights as citizens, which include political representation of their woes. They fight against elements in their own communities too, like mullahs all the time.

 

[uttermost]

3 minutes ago, chittimallu2 said:

Absolutely not, but is that your only excuse? Clearly a minority leader would want to fight his tooth and nail for the upliftment of his people as per your logic? 

is that not a good excuse? why do you think TG people wanted a separate TG then? They were able to achieve it because they were the majority in the region. muslims have no such luck.

[chittimallu2]

8 minutes ago, uttermost said:

I didn't call for breaking up for anything, although I don't mind if it happens.

I'm only calling for more localised power. substructures that can control their own fate, without having to mortgage everything to the center.

muslims don't have reservations in all states. Haj subsidy is bullshit. Hindus also subsidized for manasarovar yatra. it's just like YSR's arogyasri scheme to line private operators pockets by the govt. money is not handed to people.

you don't have to believe. just casual look at the fertility rates is enough. kerala with 20% muslims has a fertility rates of around 1.2

and Madhyapradesh with 3-4% muslims has fertility of 4. so how come Hindus in MP make more babies than muslims in kerala? Its poverty.

How sad is that, well the majority hindus dont get any reservations just for being a hindu.

Pretty sure manasarovar yatra subsidy was a very recent thing. Thats not the govt problem and its a stupid argument because there are tons of other schemes where the money doesnt actually reach the ultimate goal of the scheme, dont act like its only the haj subsidy thats being robbed. You sound desperate here to prove something.

You are absolutely cherry picking here, why only a state or two. 

 

[uttermost]

8 minutes ago, chittimallu2 said:

Im still open to discuss the facts you claim to exist. Show me how are muslims (lower class ones) are specifically suppressed by the hindu majority and their govt. 

 

[uttermost]

2 minutes ago, chittimallu2 said:

How sad is that, well the majority hindus dont get any reservations just for being a hindu.

Pretty sure manasarovar yatra subsidy was a very recent thing. Thats not the govt problem and its a stupid argument because there are tons of other schemes where the money doesnt actually reach the ultimate goal of the scheme, dont act like its only the haj subsidy thats being robbed. You sound desperate here to prove something.

You are absolutely cherry picking here, why only a state or two. 

reservations are instituted for one single reason - representation. because representation in political and governance structure is one important reason why communities can thrive. not because they are meritorious.

minority Hindus (uppercaste) are already enjoying privilege way over their ratios in population. If reservation was instituted for them too, their representation in public space will decrease from the current 50% to around 15%.

 

[chittimallu2]

10 minutes ago, uttermost said:

because population transfer is a human disaster. just imagine the logistics of moving millions of people from one place (where they have networks) to a completely new place.

I'm sure this 'we gave them territory' works as good thought experiment, but in reality, people won't move.

Okay. what are the options for a muslim if he wants to give up Islam in India. Will the Hindu society embrace him/her? under what caste. 

yes, the sky has already crushed them. we don't notice it, because we are walking on clouds. we don't even allow a muslim to criticize our nation without reminding him of his terrorist buddies. that's how awesome we are.

Ofcourse Im not asking them to move but if you and them think thats what they want (separate territory like you said in the previous post) then feel free to jump the border is what Im saying.

I dont know under what caste but they will surely help with the ghar wapsi program, although thats not y interest to discuss about. 

Poor Muslims, you project as if they cant even hear to their peaceful azaan 5 times a day on a loud speaker without disturbing every other human being who is living 3 km radius around it. Or just like how they cant vote for the likes of Owaisi despite being from the same community, because they are forced to vote for what the majority wants to. Or that they cant burst crackers when pak wins a cricket match against India. Or how the majority of them would want to obey quran over the constitution of India. What a pity

[chittimallu2]

9 minutes ago, uttermost said:

they have the right to refuse to individuals, sure. say - this guy was too arrogant when he came to look for the property, this guy doesn't make enough to pay rent on time, this guy has too many kids, etc.

but if you have a blanket reason for refusal - this guy is muslim, this guy is dalit, then that is discrimination.

They are competing man. They are not sitting and crying. While competing, they are also fighting for their legitimate rights as citizens, which include political representation of their woes. They fight against elements in their own communities too, like mullahs all the time.

 

Its not discrimination if they plainly reject the rental property, unless they openly say that. I know what you are getting at but its a personal property and they have the right to do what they want. 

There are muslim leaders in India, they could have done atleast something more than what a non muslim counterpart could do. Do you have a stat which proves that? I gave an example of owaisi already, could he not do better to his constituency than say PJR did to khairtabad? Or are you once again going to blame the state and centre rulers for that?

The problem is you are fighting a battle which does not exist here in this DB. Not saying there are no minority atrocities but all im saying is dont act like thats only happening in the hindu majority country. Im pretty sure you know hindu majority is much much much mcuh (heck much x 100000) times better than a muslim minority no matter however you want to swing it. Im all up for calling out a problem but dont paint everything to be gloom and doom and that the apocalypse is right around the corner thanks to hindu majorities and their rulers. 

I didnt like the fact some people were  beaten up for eating/carrying beef and very sure the majority of the hindus didnt like that. How many of those incidents have you seen after that small period of time when they happened? Ofcourse that was knee jerk reaction by some stupids for the ban govt tried to implement. But all Im saying is dont say thats been happening all the time ever. 

Now dont even try to get me started on problems with muslims and the wrong with them because that wont end well and i dont want that here. I can write tonne of material but dont want spew anything more here. 

End Of.

[chittimallu2]

17 minutes ago, uttermost said:

is that not a good excuse? why do you think TG people wanted a separate TG then? They were able to achieve it because they were the majority in the region. muslims have no such luck.

Sure lets all live happily under the Shariah, we are already seeing that in the UK. 

PS: Hoping you wont write an essay on how beautiful shariah is going to be just to win an argument here, I pray to God you dont do that

[uttermost]

7 minutes ago, chittimallu2 said:

Ofcourse Im not asking them to move but if you and them think thats what they want (separate territory like you said in the previous post) then feel free to jump the border is what Im saying.

I dont know under what caste but they will surely help with the ghar wapsi program, although thats not y interest to discuss about. 

Poor Muslims, you project as if they cant even hear to their peaceful azaan 5 times a day on a loud speaker without disturbing every other human being who is living 3 km radius around it. Or just like how they cant vote for the likes of Owaisi despite being from the same community, because they are forced to vote for what the majority wants to. Or that they cant burst crackers when pak wins a cricket match against India. Or how the majority of them would want to obey quran over the constitution of India. What a pity

How about a simple rule. It won't solve all problems, but will solve major ones. - No using religion or caste to campaign for politics.

It already exists, but now it will be applied to every politician and enforced. If some politician gets away with it, shaming him with videos all over until the EC debars him. you okay with that?

you know who won't be? both BJP (some Hindutva elements in Congress), and MIM.

because it takes away the biggest tool for political organization for these parties. It feeds a considerable minority, power (the uppercaste Hindus).

ofcourse, people in India should take this rule seriously and punish offenders who use even slight religious tinge to politics. I don't know if they will or won't. 

[chittimallu2]

16 minutes ago, uttermost said:

 

Why dont you think maybe there is something wrong about what they follow? Maybe something they read and obey is not putting them in the right direction? Maybe the fact that they have 8-10 members per family and that they cant afford decent life (includes food, education, common sense, etc)  is driving them towards the crime? Have you ever thought of that?

[chittimallu2]

14 minutes ago, uttermost said:

reservations are instituted for one single reason - representation. because representation in political and governance structure is one important reason why communities can thrive. not because they are meritorious.

minority Hindus (uppercaste) are already enjoying privilege way over their ratios in population. If reservation was instituted for them too, their representation in public space will decrease from the current 50% to around 15%.

 

Err no.... reservation doesnt mean you cant compete in the general quota... 

[uttermost]

1 minute ago, chittimallu2 said:

Sure lets all live happily under the Shariah, we are already seeing that in the UK. 

PS: Hoping you wont write an essay on how beautiful shariah is going to be just to win an argument here, I pray to God you dont do that

do I look like a religious apologist to you? I reject all religions. I just don't reject people who follow them.

muslim majority will give a country shariah is a fallacious conclusion. Indonesia, Turkey are examples that it is not the case.

[chittimallu2]

2 minutes ago, uttermost said:

How about a simple rule. It won't solve all problems, but will solve major ones. - No using religion or caste to campaign for politics.

It already exists, but now it will be applied to every politician and enforced. If some politician gets away with it, shaming him with videos all over until the EC debars him. you okay with that?

you know who won't be? both BJP (some Hindutva elements in Congress), and MIM.

because it takes away the biggest tool for political organization for these parties. It feeds a considerable minority, power (the uppercaste Hindus).

ofcourse, people in India should take this rule seriously and punish offenders who use even slight religious tinge to politics. I don't know if they will or won't. 

If you think BJP won because of the religion then you are deluded.

If you think MIM will win without religion, again you are deluded. 

[uttermost]

6 minutes ago, chittimallu2 said:

Its not discrimination if they plainly reject the rental property, unless they openly say that. I know what you are getting at but its a personal property and they have the right to do what they want. 

There are muslim leaders in India, they could have done atleast something more than what a non muslim counterpart could do. Do you have a stat which proves that? I gave an example of owaisi already, could he not do better to his constituency than say PJR did to khairtabad? Or are you once again going to blame the state and centre rulers for that?

The problem is you are fighting a battle which does not exist here in this DB. Not saying there are no minority atrocities but all im saying is dont act like thats only happening in the hindu majority country. Im pretty sure you know hindu majority is much much much mcuh (heck much x 100000) times better than a muslim minority no matter however you want to swing it. Im all up for calling out a problem but dont paint everything to be gloom and doom and that the apocalypse is right around the corner thanks to hindu majorities and their rulers. 

I didnt like the fact some people were  beaten up for eating/carrying beef and very sure the majority of the hindus didnt like that. How many of those incidents have you seen after that small period of time when they happened? Ofcourse that was knee jerk reaction by some stupids for the ban govt tried to implement. But all Im saying is dont say thats been happening all the time ever. 

Now dont even try to get me started on problems with muslims and the wrong with them because that wont end well and i dont want that here. I can write tonne of material but dont want spew anything more here. 

End Of.

around 26 people were killed last year for beef. 26.

I'm not fighting any battle in this db. I'm just telling you guys that your smug conclusions about hindu awesomeness is misplaced. and that Hindus are equally nasty to minorities as any other.

Any other 'democratic republic' where tens of thousands were killed in riots? counting from 1945. Not even Pakistan had that many killings apart from bangladesh genocide (not saying that doesn't count), but in India it happens even in 'peace' time.

 

[chittimallu2]

3 minutes ago, uttermost said:

do I look like a religious apologist to you? I reject all religions. I just don't reject people who follow them.

muslim majority will give a country shariah is a fallacious conclusion. Indonesia, Turkey are examples that it is not the case.

probably its a matter of time.