Bobby Fischer, I'm now a communist sympathizer.

[Beardman]

join me too...

[BobbyFischer]

11 minutes ago, pottipotato said:

how to get essentials - simple. You can order it, or we can have local mundis where people walk in, and pick stuff they want and go. The production of individual items will be scheduled according the demand for it.

commodities are already too cheap to manufacture. Most of them can be given for free (not cooking oil).

this network will have an ongoing opensourcing of machines required to manufacture these items. Means bunch of toolmakers give out their designs for machines that manufacture these items. Interested groups can either buy it from them, or make it themselves.

the only stumbling block is sourcing of raw materials. because it involves mining, refining etc. especially mining requires property rights of the particular land, which is in the hands of the capitalists now. There are plenty of ideas to get around this block. like using using raw materials from recycled products, etc. and once the govt is brought down, capitalists will have no one to protect them, and probably will give up their claim to any land.

Its not that hard to manufacture anything these days. On most items, people are only needed at the quality control level, the entire production line runs without interruption from humans.

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it sounds impossible because there's no economics studies that extensively capture this kind of activity. The only problem is most people are gorreys, and they can't be gorreys willing to give up their freedom if they want to live under this system.

it already happened in catalonia once, where this kind of movement was sabotaged because of some communists infiltrating it. and later communists ended up killing them all, even more aggressively than the fascists.

 

 

won't your system give any leverage to that machine operator who produce commodities and also the designers of the tools as they have the control...nenu inka ardam cheskovalunukunta...

[pottipotato]

46 minutes ago, BobbyFischer said:

assuming there is no control on the goods that are being sold or bought, what will be the price of the goods? how supply-demand curve will work in this economy ? how will be the prioritization decided on the production of goods say I would like to have rice twice a day where as an Italian might want to have Pasta....the system looks more abstract and vague for me at this point

do u have any links that I can follow and get more understanding ...by the way, how this system is going to solve the problems like poverty, malnutrition and illiteracy  ? 

There's no such thing as a 'price' of a good. It is simply a result of a particular transaction at a particular place, at a particular time. supply/demand model has already broken down.In practice, price is determined by a number of factors irrelevant to the supply/demand curve (even for essential goods). for eg. how much can this particular capitalist get away with. Ambani was able to provide 4G for dirt cheap prices, and idiots in India think its height of capitalist innovation.

if you want to eat rice twice a day, and you live among italians, then you gather people who eat rice like you do, and make mills to get the amount of rice you need. yes, its vague, because it has not been practiced for a long enough time to be studied and recorded by economists. So I can't point to you technical studies on how such a system works.

but you can read books on Spanish civil war where such a system worked among anarchists, and the descriptions of it will only be rhetorical, not technical. a good description of it is written by George Orwell in his 'Homage to Catalonia', after he volunteered to fight for CNT against Franco.

as for solving problems like poverty, malnutrition, illiteracy, these are problems created by the system we live under.  I understand that my optimism is silly on this, but I've not really thought about these. I just assume that these won't exist under the above society. Again, I provide Catalonia for a brief period, when peasants overthrew landowners and took over factories to produce goods they needed for themselves, as proof of my smugness.

I wish such a society exists atleast in theory, and it be allowed to be studied extensively so we can learn from it.

yeah, I forgot the current Rojava region in northern Syria, where this system exists. But its a no-go zone for most. and I haven't read any serious critical analysis of the system. It looks like more than a couple million people are living in it - a gift economy in practice in the current world.

 

 

 

[pottipotato]

24 minutes ago, BobbyFischer said:

won't your system give any leverage to that machine operator who produce commodities and also the designers of the tools as they have the control...nenu inka ardam cheskovalunukunta...

think about it like this. does Linus Torvalds have any control over you on how you use your Ubuntu distribution? he owns the linux kernel still, completely, and doesn't let others make changes to it without his approval. and for FreeBSD, I bet 99% can't even name the original BSD developers, and it is the system that is the most extensively used in the world today, in some form or the other - even more than linux.

I understand essential commodities are far more critical than some s/w, and that people's needs cannot be dictated by whims of those who control certain aspects of production. That is why, these machines are opensourced, so others can make it themselves too, if they think the current supplier is unreliable.

I understand this is a technical solution to a problem that is mostly, at its core, social and communal. but social attitudes are shaped by the environment people live under, and changing the environment can change most people's attitude towards things.

[BobbyFischer]

@Pottipotato 

Is n't Reliance Geo a wild example of the violation of supply demand curve...I still feel that most of the essential commodities whether be of domestic use or industrial use are produced and priced on the basis of supply demand...that is why you still find the value of a 1 kg wrought iron or a container bolt seal  with not more than a variance of 5-10% ..

I contempt that the cost price of a good can by played around when it has got minor significance or when it is abundantly available for the society...especially thing related to technology and when a corporate giant is delivering them in market, because of the pole position they can play around with price...

[pottipotato]

2 minutes ago, BobbyFischer said:

@Pottipotato 

Is n't Reliance Geo a wild example of the violation of supply demand curve...I still feel that most of the essential commodities whether be of domestic use or industrial use are produced and priced on the basis of supply demand...that is why you still find the value of a 1 kg wrought iron or a container bolt seal  with not more than a variance of 5-10% .. 

I contempt that the cost price of a good can by played around when it has got minor significance or when it is abundantly available for the society...especially thing related to technology and when a corporate giant is delivering them in market, because of the pole position they can play around with price... 

I don't understand what you mean by 'demand' here. do people living in thatched huts in the cities not aim to live in concrete houses? Where is the quantification of their 'demand'?

I'm in a hurry.. I'll explain later.

 

[Paidithalli]

Hello @MindRinger