Family vehemently criticised for not standing during the playing of the national anthem

[crashnburn]

2 minutes ago, DummyVariable said:

Dissent against authority is normal. People die opposing authorities that they don’t like. Rape is a different ball game. It tells that the state is trying to oppress people. You said that Indian soldiers are raping Kashmiris. Back it up because something like that will be very high if the state is the one that is aggressive.

India is the colonizer here. please stop bothering me.

[Pillipilla]

2 minutes ago, lovemystate said:

No there is no spectrum of self determination. Right to self determination for any nation is absolute. What is perhaps can be loosely called a spectrum is how this right manifests - this can manifest as absolute soverignity in which case it will be an independent country or manifest as federal soverignity in which case it accepts soverigntiy of other power like india in some areas while retaining absolute soverignty in othe areas like articl 370. But that too is for kashmiris to decide.

I don't know much about law, but this is what I found. 

"Contemporary notions of self-determination usually distinguish between “internal” and “external” self-determination, suggesting that "self-determination" exists on a spectrum.  Internal self-determination may refer to various political and social rights; by contrast, external self-determination refers to full legal independence/secession for the given 'people' from the larger politico-legal state."

[Pillipilla]

5 minutes ago, crashnburn said:

I don't think moral relativism works in the way you think it does. a country's actions cannot be decided in terms of ethics. it has laws to follow. It has to.

Which law is India violating by existing as a nation? Which law would make India break into pieces like the way you want to. 

[lovemystate]

Just now, Pillipilla said:

I don't know much about law, but this is what I found. 

"Contemporary notions of self-determination usually distinguish between “internal” and “external” self-determination, suggesting that "self-determination" exists on a spectrum.  Internal self-determination may refer to various political and social rights; by contrast, external self-determination refers to full legal independence/secession for the given 'people' from the larger politico-legal state."

I think the quotation is saying the same thing i said but combining self determination with how self determination manifests - complete independence or not. Does it say "external" self determination of a people is dependent on power outside of that said people ? i dont think so. 

[lovemystate]

1 minute ago, Pillipilla said:

Which law is India violating by existing as a nation? Which law would make India break into pieces like the way you want to. 

He said it is against ethics not law.

[Pillipilla]

2 minutes ago, crashnburn said:

 

There's no such thing as 'international law' that can be enforced. Kashmiris are a nation, because India agreed that they are a separate nation. That's why they have their own constituent assembly. dissolving it is not under purview of the Indian govt.

Can you contest that in the court of law? May it be at the Supreme Court or at the United Nations? Like I said, India make enough tweaks to defend their stance on article 370. It will be difficult to overrule it in the court of law. 

[Pillipilla]

Just now, lovemystate said:

He said it is against ethics not law.

I agree, I don't think what India did is ethical. But the problem is a lot of people think that it's ethical. That's the problem with ethics. 

[crashnburn]

2 minutes ago, Pillipilla said:

If your question is if I would be sad if the government is overturned, my answer is no. Honestly, I don't like most of the policies of the Government, especially social policies, beaf ban, fake sense of patriotism or lynching of minorities. However, I would rather have a Government that takes a strong stance at the international stage than have a dummy Government that exists to appease minorities and not take action. I never voted in India, and if I had to, I wouldn't. 

that's not my question.

you keep referring to moral relativism, but you yourself have strong morals. even if they are different to mine.I personally don't have strong morals.

my hatred for India is not because it is subjugating kashmir or treats minorities poorly, but because it is focusing on extraneous stuff that is irrelevant to itself, instead of focusing on how to lift its people out of poverty. trying different innovative policies.

I have no problem with social giveaways, or capitalist giveaways. I want to see a 1000 things tried, and see a system that constantly change. India is not that system. it disgusts me.

[lovemystate]

5 minutes ago, crashnburn said:

 

There's no such thing as 'international law' that can be enforced. Kashmiris are a nation, because India agreed that they are a separate nation. That's why they have their own constituent assembly. dissolving it is not under purview of the Indian govt.

There is international law but you are right no real body to enforce it I mean there is UN but more of a joke really. 

[crashnburn]

1 minute ago, lovemystate said:

There is international law but you are right no real body to enforce it I mean there is UN but more of a joke really. 

kashmir is a nation. India itself agrees. there's no need of international law to ratify it.

[Pillipilla]

2 minutes ago, lovemystate said:

I think the quotation is saying the same thing i said but combining self determination with how self determination manifests - complete independence or not. Does it say "external" self determination of a people is dependent on power outside of that said people ? i dont think so. 

I guess what I am getting at is, I agree that Kashmiris want freedom against Indian Government. And I agree that what India is doing in Kashmir is not ethical. But the right to self determination of the people of Kashmir, is that influenced by the people of Kashmir or by the changed demographics in the region over time? Like would people from Kashmir who were kicked out ages ago have a say in what happens to the nation?

[lovemystate]

Just now, crashnburn said:

that's not my question.

you keep referring to moral relativism, but you yourself have strong morals. even if they are different to mine.I personally don't have strong morals.

my hatred for India is not because it is subjugating kashmir or treats minorities poorly, but because it is focusing on extraneous stuff that is irrelevant to itself, instead of focusing on how to lift its people out of poverty. trying different innovative policies.

I have no problem with social giveaways, or capitalist giveaways. I want to see a 1000 things tried, and see a system that constantly change. India is not that system. it disgusts me.

India is in other words a brahmin state meant to solve brahmin problems, take brahmin revenge against kashmiris (kashmiri pundit is the excuse) brahmin revenge against islam and christiantiy as they promise to bring dignity to dalits and other lower castes and provide brahmins first employment from everything ranging from bureacracy to army to cabinet ministers. Economy, poverty etc are like third preferences for this state. No wonder it is the only country which saw an absolute increase in cultivators in last few decades while the entire world saw a decrease.

[Pillipilla]

4 minutes ago, crashnburn said:

that's not my question.

you keep referring to moral relativism, but you yourself have strong morals. even if they are different to mine.I personally don't have strong morals.

my hatred for India is not because it is subjugating kashmir or treats minorities poorly, but because it is focusing on extraneous stuff that is irrelevant to itself, instead of focusing on how to lift its people out of poverty. trying different innovative policies.

I have no problem with social giveaways, or capitalist giveaways. I want to see a 1000 things tried, and see a system that constantly change. India is not that system. it disgusts me.

Well, I don't like change. It bothers me. 

[crashnburn]

1 minute ago, lovemystate said:

India is in other words a brahmin state meant to solve brahmin problems, take brahmin revenge against kashmiris (kashmiri pundit is the excuse) brahmin revenge against islam and christiantiy as they promise to bring dignity to dalits and other lower castes and provide brahmins first employment from everything ranging from bureacracy to army to cabinet ministers. Economy, poverty etc are like third preferences for this state. No wonder it is the only country which saw an absolute increase in cultivators in last few decades while the entire world saw a decrease.

India is a deeply insecure and stupid nation.

[Pillipilla]

2 minutes ago, crashnburn said:

India is a deeply insecure and stupid nation.

What makes a nation stupid? In the spectrum of stupidity where would India fall when you compare it with the US, China, Pakistan, North Korea, and Venezuela.