hyperbole Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, dasara_bullodu said: Govt doesn't go to people to check citizenship people will come to govt to apply for citizenship... he means if government wants to kick or conspire against someone they can use NRC and CAB which can be lethal to uneducated muslims in Indian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasara_bullodu Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, hyperbole said: he means if government wants to kick or conspire against someone they can use NRC and CAB which can be lethal to uneducated muslims in Indian ok ... in that case there must be some provision to filter out the muslims who are Indian and who are not so what's stopping ppl to get passport or national identification ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperbole Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, dasara_bullodu said: ok ... in that case there must be some provision to filter out the muslims who are Indian and who are not so what's stopping ppl to get passport or national identification ? that’s the problem with our educated class, we expect everyone to quickly adapt to everything and same in case of demonetization and we know how that worked out to be...this indifference and not having empathy towards everyone will further sink this nation in to the abyss. somewhere someone has think about situations like this and encourage people to apply for national id and then make laws and not the other way round in my opinion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DummyVariable Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 15 minutes ago, dasara_bullodu said: Govt doesn't go to people to check citizenship people will come to govt to apply for citizenship... So should people who do not have documentation live without citizenship? What if they have kids or medical emergencies? Govt will impose ID checks for everything. Even to buy bus tickets. What will you do then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasara_bullodu Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 11 minutes ago, hyperbole said: that’s the problem with our educated class, we expect everyone to quickly adapt to everything and same in case of demonetization and we know how that worked out to be...this indifference and not having empathy towards everyone will further sink this nation in to the abyss. somewhere someone has think about situations like this and encourage people to apply for national id and then make laws and not the other way round in my opinion when you keep thinking about empathy at a country level, will that provide a practical solution ? 1. for eg. how would you deal with a problem of illegal entries .... you mean leave the solution to God .. or by chance? then why government exist in the first place 2. You ask ppl to apply for national level, shouldn't there be a deadline... I mean is there a 100% acceptance that everyone got the Id by some day ? lets say there is no deadline whatsoever, then why would someone even register ... or lets say you give 3 yr deadline... will you do now since there are 3 more years left ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DummyVariable Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 24 minutes ago, dasara_bullodu said: when you keep thinking about empathy at a country level, will that provide a practical solution ? 1. for eg. how would you deal with a problem of illegal entries .... you mean leave the solution to God .. or by chance? then why government exist in the first place 2. You ask ppl to apply for national level, shouldn't there be a deadline... I mean is there a 100% acceptance that everyone got the Id by some day ? lets say there is no deadline whatsoever, then why would someone even register ... or lets say you give 3 yr deadline... will you do now since there are 3 more years left ? Government has to find solutions that are empathetic regardless of what citizens think. Education, for example, is a right and the government at best can encourage the parents to send their kids to school. Now whether people avail the benefits that the government gives with regards to education is a different issue. In TG, Muslim population is 13% and in AP, it is 9%. Within their population about 35-40% are not educated. Let us say about half of these people do not have documentation. We are talking about 20 to 30 lakh people who can be potentially kicked out in Telugu states alone. Even among Hindus there are many uneducated people and many do not have documents. How can they prove themselves that they are Hindu? If you go to any govt office to get a birth certificate or a caste certificate you have to shell out a lot of money as bribes. There are systemic faults here to add to the existing problems. Poor people will suffer badly and most don’t even know the impact of this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasara_bullodu Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, DummyVariable said: Government has to find solutions that are empathetic regardless of what citizens think. Education, for example, is a right and the government at best can encourage the parents to send their kids to school. Now whether people avail the benefits that the government gives with regards to education is a different issue. In TG, Muslim population is 13% and in AP, it is 9%. Within their population about 35-40% are not educated. Let us say about half of these people do not have documentation. We are talking about 20 to 30 lakh people who can be potentially kicked out. Even among Hindus there are many uneducated and many do not have documents. How can they prove themselves that they are Hindu? If you go to any govt office to get a birth certificate or a caste certificate you have to shell out a lot of money as bribes. There are systemic faults here to add to the existing problems. Poor people will suffer badly and most don’t even know the impact of this. Sounds good ... I will go back to the crux of my initial question ... Muslims are fighting and fears are accepted. 1. Is there any "formal" path the muslim groups are pursuing so that all of the uneducated undocumented will get respective ids. 2. What is the current criteria to separate illegals from Indians ? I am objectively asking here about what is happening wrt documentation for citizenship at ground reality. This is not towards any opinion.. I just want to know the details Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemystate Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 what about million of hindus and their arthanaadalu for gc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaarling Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 The most funny and entertaininig comments yet to come from @lovemystate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechAdvice Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Meowalpha said: Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan said on Tuesday that millions of Muslims could flee India due to the curfew in the disputed territory of Kashmir and India's new citizenship law, creating "a refugee crisis that would dwarf other crises". Khan, addressing the Global Forum on Refugees in Geneva, said: "We are worried there not only could be a refugee crisis, we are worried it could lead to a conflict between two nuclear-armed countries." Lol vedu Erri puvvu la matladuthunndu as usual for pakis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin200 Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, TechAdvice said: Lol vedu Erri puvvu la matladuthunndu as usual for pakis Kontha mandhiki eedu great leader and speaker ekkada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DummyVariable Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 55 minutes ago, dasara_bullodu said: Sounds good ... I will go back to the crux of my initial question ... Muslims are fighting and fears are accepted. 1. Is there any "formal" path the muslim groups are pursuing so that all of the uneducated undocumented will get respective ids. 2. What is the current criteria to separate illegals from Indians ? I am objectively asking here about what is happening wrt documentation for citizenship at ground reality. This is not towards any opinion.. I just want to know the details We cannot really separate how Muslims are behaving from how Hindus are behaving. We have to understand how poor people are behaving/living their lives. Now anyone educated and rich will get a citizenship as he/she most likely has documents like aadhar, passport or a birth certificate regardless of he/she being a Muslim or a Hindu. People who know the value of having documents are most likely the rich and the educated. Even if these people do not have documents, they know how to get them. This behavior is not religion specific. The one document that can help people to get a passport, aadhar, ration card etc is a birth certificate. Now that is a pretty simple document for us, but if you go to poor households there is a good chance that the kids don’t have birth certificates. Like wise in rural areas where children can be born in the house itself instead of a hospital. There are situations that can lead to people not bothering about birth certificates. You may ask why, but the people themselves see that they don’t need to have it. I remember visiting some of the North TG and AP districts back in school and some of the tribal people didn’t even know that they are tribes let alone have a birth certificate. I am just trying to point how big the problem is. Now if the kid doesn’t have it, they can look at the details of the parents. What if the parents don’t have it? Should we rely on British day stats? That is an even bigger of a problem as only 12% of India is recorded to have any documentation at the time of independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meowalpha Posted December 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, DummyVariable said: We cannot really separate how Muslims are behaving from how Hindus are behaving. We have to understand how poor people are behaving/living their lives. Now anyone educated and rich will get a citizenship as he/she most likely has documents like aadhar, passport or a birth certificate regardless of he/she being a Muslim or a Hindu. People who know the value of having documents are most likely the rich and the educated. Even if these people do not have documents, they know how to get them. This behavior is not religion specific. The one document that can help people to get a passport, aadhar, ration card etc is a birth certificate. Now that is a pretty simple document for us, but if you go to poor households there is a good chance that the kids don’t have birth certificates. Like wise in rural areas where children can be born in the house itself instead of a hospital. There are situations that can lead to people not bothering about birth certificates. You may ask why, but the people themselves see that they don’t need to have it. I remember visiting some of the North TG and AP districts back in school and some of the tribal people didn’t even know that they are tribes let alone have a birth certificate. I am just trying to point how big the problem is. Now if the kid doesn’t have it, they can look at the details of the parents. What is the parents don’t have it? Should we rely on British day stats? That is an even bigger of a problem as only 12% of India is recorded to have any documentation at the time of independence. @Arey_enti_ra_idi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemystate Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedracer Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Sachin200 said: all paki people are refugees in their own country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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