India's air defence

[maverick19]

On 6/20/2020 at 12:37 AM, kakatiya said:

concept still remains the same. India stood against USA air dominance by choosing superior alternatives against american air defense technology supplied to pakistan while chinese developed their own. 

 

 But because of NDA government failed deal to procure 100 Rafael deals, Chinese seized the opportunity and exposed indias poor leadership + poor economy + inferior air defence. 

 

China after 1 year standoff with indian troops in Doklam, made a permanent camp with 1600 troops in 2018 in Doklam disputed area.  India cannot afford for another standoff.  India instead of protesting at international level, to preserver Narendra modi leadership reputation banned any news in news media that showed Chinas dominance. This gave china an ultimate edge in 2020 to occupy 60 square kilometers of previously Indian-held territory, which as usual naerndra modi government denied giving ultimate edge to chinese troops who occupied. This disowned muted indian army to retreat with little no support for Modi government. Many held captive, 20 and plus killed by chines PLA army with iron rods and what not , with a heavy brutal standoff.

 

If there is any in India today that is not supporting Army troops, it is our beloved NDA government and its attempt to preserve its reputation . 

bhaiyaa naku nuvvu chepina inni details teliyavu kani. i recently saw an podcast with army general and all i came to know is india after 1971 till 2014 didnot have the basic arms procurement because of one economic issues (which got resolved after narasimha roa/MM) and other bureaucracy slow pace actions of congress.  it is only after 2014 and under CDS bipin rawat (lost him unfortunately) things started to change for good and procurement is happening at rapid pace.  i can post the video if you want to see.  you talk about rafale but when was initially signed and why was it delayed for years  decades

[pakeer_saab]

On 6/19/2020 at 11:31 PM, i_sudigadu said:

Apart from defense technology  , you need to have intelligent strategies ... Isreal mottam Arab world ni 6 days lo odinchi ucha poyinchindi... watch 1967 war documentaries 

that is a  myth, it has the support of US/UK, they just acted right on time with a perfect strategy

at the end of the day fight cheyali kada  valle, in that sense they are masters

 

[pakeer_saab]

On 6/20/2020 at 12:09 AM, Prince_Fan said:

maa Indians daridram ala vundi....atu vaipu velthe Pappu gadu...itu vaipu velthe Bodi gadu....iddaru iddare....ee bodi gadu last 6 years lo em chesaado evadikee teledu

neeku teliyadu ani cheppu.. it will look good 

[kakatiya]

Folks it's been 2 years since I started this thread ..

Flashback 2019 - GOI* gave AON* for 114 aircrafts in April 2019 for mrfa or also known as mrca competition. We all know who are contenders for these  ..Rafael , f16c/d , gripen.. and these are single engine btw 

Goi- government of India 

Aon - acceptance of necessity 

Where as iaf strictly want Rafael vs goi wants either f16 or gripen. 

 

While politics are in progress you have seen 2020 china LAC encroaching.

 

Goi given Aon to two more Rafael squadrons immediately why ? Because they don't want china to make use of this situation even more and IAF wins.. 

2021 we lost 5 mig 21 and most importantly pilots ..very skilled pilots

2022 - July 29th another pilot duo.. yong 26 year old and experience 36 year old ..both lost their life's in mig 21 that was older version not 2000 year developed mig 21 with advanced avionics that abhinandan used. 

Political desire of 20 billion $ 1.6 lakhs of crore political deal or IAF motivation to modernize our medium multi role combat aircrafts.  We shouldn't be fighting f16s using mig 21s in 2019 or any year beyond. 

 

In year 2022 our ruling government bjp spent just 50 crores for each  in buying mla s from opposition in Maharashtra.  But when it comes to ambition of IAF they are worried about funding national projects..  before people blame just Congress or any other government..things remained same..

If you bring in defence exports as good  numbers to appease bjp defence sector performance,  please kindly note that these defence exports where multiplied because of no objection from gov and 60% of them are private incentives like tata. 

It is not because our government increased manufacturing and export overnight. It is long road ahead..

 

 

 

 

 

[kakatiya]

On 6/19/2020 at 9:45 PM, Zuri said:

Come on man! Sukoi mirage anni cover chey

We are still surviving on bisons brother.. 

Ofcourse mirage and jaguars too.. eppudo nenu chinappudu..prior to 1999 Kargil war they might been have effective..but Kargil war tharvatha aina we should have modernized them.. 

 

Lca tejas is yet to prove it's combat capabilities and needs equipped with better single engine.. so I am afraid how long these politics will continue in acquiring a better multi combat role fighter. 

 

Like 1971 china war ..if similar war repeats and if we have to use airfoce (we didn't use airfoce for 1971 war , otherwise only to transport ground troops and supplies).. we don't have fifth generation fighter .. only good news is India had claimed to have captured signatures of China j20s fighters by radar that too in a long range. 

 

Question is are those unknown flying object signature is truly of j20 ?

And since India has acquired sam s-400 system from Russia that delivers next year..there is no way india can purchase f-35 from USA and USA won't sell those fifth generation fighters for customers with s-400.

 

[Picheshwar]

19 minutes ago, kakatiya said:

Folks it's been 2 years since I started this thread ..

Flashback 2019 - GOI* gave AON* for 114 aircrafts in April 2019 for mrfa or also known as mrca competition. We all know who are contenders for these  ..Rafael , f16c/d , gripen.. and these are single engine btw 

Goi- government of India 

Aon - acceptance of necessity 

Where as iaf strictly want Rafael vs goi wants either f16 or gripen. 

 

While politics are in progress you have seen 2020 china LAC encroaching.

 

Goi given Aon to two more Rafael squadrons immediately why ? Because they don't want china to make use of this situation even more and IAF wins.. 

2021 we lost 5 mig 21 and most importantly pilots ..very skilled pilots

2022 - July 29th another pilot duo.. yong 26 year old and experience 36 year old ..both lost their life's in mig 21 that was older version not 2000 year developed mig 21 with advanced avionics that abhinandan used. 

Political desire of 20 billion $ 1.6 lakhs of crore political deal or IAF motivation to modernize our medium multi role combat aircrafts.  We shouldn't be fighting f16s using mig 21s in 2019 or any year beyond. 

 

In year 2022 our ruling government bjp spent just 50 crores for each  in buying mla s from opposition in Maharashtra.  But when it comes to ambition of IAF they are worried about funding national projects..  before people blame just Congress or any other government..things remained same..

If you bring in defence exports as good  numbers to appease bjp defence sector performance,  please kindly note that these defence exports where multiplied because of no objection from gov and 60% of them are private incentives like tata. 

It is not because our government increased manufacturing and export overnight. It is long road ahead..

 

 

 

 

 

Ippudu emantav bro

[Android_Halwa]

20 years down the road, Do we really think we need fifth or sixth generation fighter aircrafts ? 
 

I don’t think fighter aircrafts will be part of any armed conflicts couple of decades later. Drones and hypersonic missiles may replace the need for advanced fighter aircrafts.  

[Swatkat]

@Raven_Rayes

[kakatiya]

On 6/20/2020 at 4:13 PM, kakatiya said:

Next comes the radar sytem. Indian air defence was able to tackle superior west production with help of gnat in 1960s, 

In between we had Hal marut which was ground attack aircraft unlike gnat . It was indegenously produced and it had superior aero dynamics. This plane lacked superior engine and world politics supressed the India dominance to produce a aircraft like this again.

 

Even today Indian r & d gas turbines research unit that are designing future engines severely lack in upgrades and we will never able to design and complete India's ambitious fifth generation stealth fighter. Even lca Tejas falls short of a perfect turbo jet engine.

 

 

Radar system:

Iraq airforce was biggest in gulf , it has 550 combat fighters with 1200 aircrafts . 6 the largest in the world.

USA launched f117 A night hawk stealth fighters destroyed the entire radar sytem making them useless..

 

That is where f-35 and Chinese j20 dominate the world today . It is rumoured Pakistan might get a j20 in future.

 

We are procuring mig and sukhoi with 6000 crores purchase orders in hurry today. This is knee jerk reaction 

 

S-400 is India purchase of air defence system that is superior to lockhead  ThAad and so chinese use the same s-400 rusian air defence system.

 

However India should purchase single engine fifth generation fighters while starting f-16 70s model production in Hyderabad. India should go ahead with f35 purchase and ignore all the future deals of twin engine fifth generation fighters planes or sukhois that are not combat tested in India yet.

 

This two foot foreign policies will not work.

 

 

 

This is what I have suggested two years ago.. just a common man view . Nothing has changed ever since. 

 

 

[Raven_Rayes]

1 minute ago, Swatkat said:

@Raven_Rayes

why did you tag me? I think these discussions are pointless.

[kakatiya]

6 minutes ago, Android_Halwa said:

20 years down the road, Do we really think we need fifth or sixth generation fighter aircrafts ? 
 

I don’t think fighter aircrafts will be part of any armed conflicts couple of decades later. Drones and hypersonic missiles may replace the need for advanced fighter aircrafts.  

Fifth generation fighters.. are already induced..

The fifth generation -second version are going to be AI run pilot less stealth fighters with little radar support and fly by wire .

Where as GOI vs IAF are still discussing about replacing age old multi role combat aircrafts , while assuring that they are going to deliver indigenous fifth generation stealth fighter by 2030.   GOI needs to fund airfoce and r&d heavily in designing engine for fifth generation fighters. 

[tables]

idantha kaadu kaani.... meerantha maatladukoni last ki evarni botycott cheyalo cheppandi.. memu trend chestam.

[futureofandhra]

2 hours ago, kakatiya said:

Fifth generation fighters.. are already induced..

The fifth generation -second version are going to be AI run pilot less stealth fighters with little radar support and fly by wire .

Where as GOI vs IAF are still discussing about replacing age old multi role combat aircrafts , while assuring that they are going to deliver indigenous fifth generation stealth fighter by 2030.   GOI needs to fund airfoce and r&d heavily in designing engine for fifth generation fighters. 

Is rafeal 5th gen?

[kakatiya]

13 minutes ago, futureofandhra said:

Is rafeal 5th gen?

Hal tejas, jf 17 , Rafael dassault all are 4+ or 4++ based on advanced avionics they are attached to. 

If we get Rafael's with all bells and whistles .f-16 ki checkmate .. 

 

Fifth gen are only operated and inducted by USA Russia and china. India is developing its own fifth generation while USA and BAE are developing sixth generation  

[pichhipullayya]

2 hours ago, kakatiya said:

We are still surviving on bisons brother.. 

Ofcourse mirage and jaguars too.. eppudo nenu chinappudu..prior to 1999 Kargil war they might been have effective..but Kargil war tharvatha aina we should have modernized them.. 

 

Lca tejas is yet to prove it's combat capabilities and needs equipped with better single engine.. so I am afraid how long these politics will continue in acquiring a better multi combat role fighter. 

 

Like 1971 china war ..if similar war repeats and if we have to use airfoce (we didn't use airfoce for 1971 war , otherwise only to transport ground troops and supplies).. we don't have fifth generation fighter .. only good news is India had claimed to have captured signatures of China j20s fighters by radar that too in a long range. 

 

Question is are those unknown flying object signature is truly of j20 ?

And since India has acquired sam s-400 system from Russia that delivers next year..there is no way india can purchase f-35 from USA and USA won't sell those fifth generation fighters for customers with s-400.

 

F-35s are too costly and difficult to maintain compared any european or russian fighters.  So its a blessing in disguise for India.

India should make a deal with Dassault for more Rafale's and transfer of Technology as Mirages proved to be excellent in terms flying hours in IAF.

anyone interested go through below discussion which has comments by some real life pilots & exservice men.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commercial-vehicles/254996-iaf-phase-out-mig-21-squadrons-2025-a-3.html

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/commercial-vehicles/182868-combat-aircraft-indian-air-force-107.html

this forum is not politically biased and has proper introspection into the issues.