Nice video explaining Farmer bill

[RSUCHOU]

15 hours ago, Telugodura456 said:

what an idiotic response. Which farmer asked private sector not to invest in storage, irrigation and other infrastructure. All farmers are asking is dont throw us at mercy of these corporates give us some minimum security through MSP and land protection by regulate corporating farmer.

Complete bullshit response full of tangential points and slander against farmer.

Slander against farmer? Tangential? That is exactly what you comment was. I see zero points in support of why you think my argument was tangential or slanderous. Empty rhetoric. But still, here you go. Some information and the numbers for you to mull over.

Is there a MSP for all the crops today? For the crops where there is an MSP, is the farmer making a return on investment? There are 23 crops under cereals, pulses, oil seeds & commercial crops under MSP. Paddy MSP per quintal for Grade A is 1888 rs. Among that you have to give a percentage to the market. Do you know the lobbying that happens in a market. The amount of water and power that go into produce and the effort that goes into it, does that get an ROI? And, Do you know how many crops that are not under MSP sustain with a consistent price in the markets across the country round the year? Average price of Potato per KG in the markets across 2020 was 20.57 /KG. Capsicum is 20.50/KG. In an acre, we can produce 30-50 quintals per crop of Capsicum. 100 quintals of Potato can be grown in the same acre. Broccoli, Lettuce, Brinjal, Aloevera(25000 Rs per Ton) and you can grow upto 45 ton in an acre. So, what is driving farming in India is not market, but, the generations of misinformation. What does privatization do? Open the farming to be driven by needs. What is stopping them doing it today? The lure of MSPs, wrong guidance from middlemen, vicious debt cycles they get into.

Did the government delete any of the commodities out of MSP with these bills? No. Then what is this shallow cry about MSPs? I am game for further debate on the topic, if you so wish. But, facts against facts. I have zero inclination for name calling and empty rhetoric. If that is what you have on offer, please excuse.

[Dosakai]

20 minutes ago, RSUCHOU said:

Sure. I will. Contract farming. I am already working on something like that in my village. A cooperative society that will collectively decide on the crops for the whole village. The earnings will be split based on the size of the plot. This is inline with whatever I can sell to the nearest market. This time, we are planning on Gauva and some vegetables. We are already in talks with a supermarket with multiple branches. Not, Ambani's and Adani's. The conversation is for them to provide some investments for tractors and other stuff and also procure the produce. 

Now, if we potentially talk about corporates, they have even deeper pockets. If an Ambani or an Adani agrees to setup a food processing unit or say an aloe vera processing unit, we can produce aloevera round the year without water. The price can be decided based on the national price market. Similarly, if markets decide the crop and agree on a price, the investment on technology is automatically procured. Also, based on the agreement we can procure loans from the banks instead of taking loans from middlemen. While I understand, this is not done overnight, think of this just like what happened when the markets were opened in 1991.

okay. you make some sense here.

but ambani/adani are not stopped to set up food processing units in your place right now, even without the bill.

I think you misunderstand the purpose of the bill itself. It is to regulate agri commodity exchanges, and not a farm bill per se..

It is to invite even more financial participants into the agri commodity business, and thus providing farmers access to easy and cheaper credits.. yes. Its gonna take a long long long time to achieve this.

this bill will not achieve it. It will only trash the monopoly of local mandis in procurement of certain commodities. There's still work to be done with identifying how this spot markets have to be regulated. the govt is trying  to integrate future markets and spot markets so the prices are stable. that's the goal. everything else is a consequence of that goal.

The govt actually created an electronic project to start cross selling across mandis with eNAM in 2016, but that project didn't go anywhere. If it did, the bill wouldn't even be required. The govt hasn't even addressed what went wrong with that project that attracted only about 150 mandis to sign up, among the 7000 across the country.

this issue is not cut and dry dude. Farmers are not idiots to protest. you may be a farmer, but doesn't mean you understand a farmer in punjab.

[Dosakai]

2 minutes ago, RSUCHOU said:

Slander against farmer? Tangential? That is exactly what you comment was. I see zero points in support of why you think my argument was tangential or slanderous. Empty rhetoric. But still, here you go. Some information and the numbers for you to mull over.

Is there a MSP for all the crops today? For the crops where there is an MSP, is the farmer making a return on investment? There are 23 crops under cereals, pulses, oil seeds & commercial crops under MSP. Paddy MSP per quintal for Grade A is 1888 rs. Among that you have to give a percentage to the market. Do you know the lobbying that happens in a market. The amount of water and power that go into produce and the effort that goes into it, does that get an ROI? And, Do you know how many crops that are not under MSP sustain with a consistent price in the markets across the country round the year? Average price of Potato per KG in the markets across 2020 was 20.57 /KG. Capsicum is 20.50/KG. In an acre, we can produce 30-50 quintals per crop of Capsicum. 100 quintals of Potato can be grown in the same acre. Broccoli, Lettuce, Brinjal, Aloevera(25000 Rs per Ton) and you can grow upto 45 ton in an acre. So, what is driving farming in India is not market, but, the generations of misinformation. What does privatization do? Open the farming to be driven by needs. What is stopping them doing it today? The lure of MSPs, wrong guidance from middlemen, vicious debt cycles they get into.

Did the government delete any of the commodities out of MSP with these bills? No. Then what is this shallow cry about MSPs? I am game for further debate on the topic, if you so wish. But, facts against facts. I have zero inclination for name calling and empty rhetoric. If that is what you have on offer, please excuse.

I think you must first state why the govt introduced this bills. This is a long standing demand (from 2006) ever since agri commodity exchange got digitized.

but the bills are just half the narrative. The govt can easily take back these bills, and still push all the reforms they want to outside of it.

[Dosakai]

5 minutes ago, RSUCHOU said:

Slander against farmer? Tangential? That is exactly what you comment was. I see zero points in support of why you think my argument was tangential or slanderous. Empty rhetoric. But still, here you go. Some information and the numbers for you to mull over.

Is there a MSP for all the crops today? For the crops where there is an MSP, is the farmer making a return on investment? There are 23 crops under cereals, pulses, oil seeds & commercial crops under MSP. Paddy MSP per quintal for Grade A is 1888 rs. Among that you have to give a percentage to the market. Do you know the lobbying that happens in a market. The amount of water and power that go into produce and the effort that goes into it, does that get an ROI? And, Do you know how many crops that are not under MSP sustain with a consistent price in the markets across the country round the year? Average price of Potato per KG in the markets across 2020 was 20.57 /KG. Capsicum is 20.50/KG. In an acre, we can produce 30-50 quintals per crop of Capsicum. 100 quintals of Potato can be grown in the same acre. Broccoli, Lettuce, Brinjal, Aloevera(25000 Rs per Ton) and you can grow upto 45 ton in an acre. So, what is driving farming in India is not market, but, the generations of misinformation. What does privatization do? Open the farming to be driven by needs. What is stopping them doing it today? The lure of MSPs, wrong guidance from middlemen, vicious debt cycles they get into.

Did the government delete any of the commodities out of MSP with these bills? No. Then what is this shallow cry about MSPs? I am game for further debate on the topic, if you so wish. But, facts against facts. I have zero inclination for name calling and empty rhetoric. If that is what you have on offer, please excuse.

regulation of the agri commodity business, still needs govt investment, for financial institutions to take a look into them.

private investments are a joke. They will never achieve the required scale or make a change. that's why 1991 reforms didn't create an east asia kind of run away economy. India still grows only in spurts, because govt refuses to invest.

 

[RSUCHOU]

15 hours ago, Telugodura456 said:

Then give MSP to other crops to where the govt wants to see more production. Is that not the most obvious solution/

Nope. What MSP is there for other crops which are returning profits already? Potatoes, capsicum, cauliflower, broccoli, watermelon.. the list is lengthy. They are sustaining the demand without an MSP. MSP is regulatory and detrimental. If you get a chance, please read what every agricultural economist worth his salt is saying on the Agri reforms. I come from a family that has over a 150 acres of undivided farm lands. We invest on agriculture for the passion from the money we cousins earn from our jobs. Do you know we have not seen a single rupee of profit on our investments. Infact we lose money. We are slowly making progress into diversifying the crops. Agriculture is way too different on the ground that what you hear on this forum. MSP is a trap that has spoilt the Jatt heartland. I clearly gave the reasons on how it spoilt Haryana and Punjab in one of my earlier posts. Please do read if you have some time.

[Dosakai]

2 minutes ago, RSUCHOU said:

Nope. What MSP is there for other crops which are returning profits already? Potatoes, capsicum, cauliflower, broccoli, watermelon.. the list is lengthy. They are sustaining the demand without an MSP. MSP is regulatory and detrimental. If you get a chance, please read what every agricultural economist worth his salt is saying on the Agri reforms. I come from a family that has over a 150 acres of undivided farm lands. We invest on agriculture for the passion from the money we cousins earn from our jobs. Do you know we have not seen a single rupee of profit on our investments. Infact we lose money. We are slowly making progress into diversifying the crops. Agriculture is way too different on the ground that what you hear on this forum. MSP is a trap that has spoilt the Jatt heartland. I clearly gave the reasons on how it spoilt Haryana and Punjab in one of my earlier posts. Please do read if you have some time.

this is the kind of bs you should avoid. 

[Dosakai]

Adani, Ambani don't have deep pockets. and even if they did, they wouldn't invest in infra that benefits others.

[RSUCHOU]

4 minutes ago, Dosakai said:

regulation of the agri commodity business, still needs govt investment, for financial institutions to take a look into them.

private investments are a joke. They will never achieve the required scale or make a change. that's why 1991 reforms didn't create an east asia kind of run away economy. India still grows only in spurts, because govt refuses to invest.

 

Along with the reforms, you also have governments pulling it back with extreme levies on Import and cess on Gold etc which also make it lucrative for people to trade in money and stash their black monies. With the earlier policies running us to ground, the reforms were the only reason we atleast had some growth to talk about.

[RSUCHOU]

12 minutes ago, Dosakai said:

this is the kind of bs you should avoid. 

Oh yeah. Thus spoketh the lord.

[RSUCHOU]

30 minutes ago, Dosakai said:

okay. you make some sense here.

but ambani/adani are not stopped to set up food processing units in your place right now, even without the bill.

I think you misunderstand the purpose of the bill itself. It is to regulate agri commodity exchanges, and not a farm bill per se..

It is to invite even more financial participants into the agri commodity business, and thus providing farmers access to easy and cheaper credits.. yes. Its gonna take a long long long time to achieve this.

this bill will not achieve it. It will only trash the monopoly of local mandis in procurement of certain commodities. There's still work to be done with identifying how this spot markets have to be regulated. the govt is trying  to integrate future markets and spot markets so the prices are stable. that's the goal. everything else is a consequence of that goal.

The govt actually created an electronic project to start cross selling across mandis with eNAM in 2016, but that project didn't go anywhere. If it did, the bill wouldn't even be required. The govt hasn't even addressed what went wrong with that project that attracted only about 150 mandis to sign up, among the 7000 across the country.

this issue is not cut and dry dude. Farmers are not idiots to protest. you may be a farmer, but doesn't mean you understand a farmer in punjab.

I definitely might not understand a farmer in Punjab and his problems as you say. So, while I am all for a discussion on the farm bills and addition of guarantees and better arbitration mechanisms, asking for a total repeal or a MSP inclusion is also not going to solve the problems. I might be wrong on a lot of points, but, considering everything that is said by every dissenting voice or what every protestor says as gospel truth is also not right. I have been repeatedly saying, these bills might not support the farmer, but they definitely do not hurt them. If they choose to still sell to the Mandi's no one is stopping them. This makes mandis become competitive.

[Dosakai]

13 minutes ago, RSUCHOU said:

Along with the reforms, you also have governments pulling it back with extreme levies on Import and cess on Gold etc which also make it lucrative for people to trade in money and stash their black monies. With the earlier policies running us to ground, the reforms were the only reason we atleast had some growth to talk about.

dude 1991 reforms were lame and insufficient. same with these bills. They are insufficient. Similar to how Indian economy didn't really take off after 1991, this farm bills will also not provide a boost to investment from private sector.

I don't know what earlier policies ran us to the ground.. which era are you talking about? 

anyway you talk about aloe vera, when the conversation is on MSP. tell me who stopped Ambani from starting a food processing unit near your town right now?

14 minutes ago, RSUCHOU said:

Oh yeah. Thus spoketh the lord.

haha.. obviously. after I read the nothing burger explanation you gave for MSP, you certainly don't deserve the audacity to call other farmers names. Lets hear a stronger argument against the protesting farmers. About the bills, they are decent. nothing great, but nothing too harmful too. And they can easily be pulled back and reforms initiated in a different route, like I explained earlier with govt investment and eNAM.

[RSUCHOU]

14 minutes ago, Dosakai said:

dude 1991 reforms were lame and insufficient. same with these bills. They are insufficient. Similar to how Indian economy didn't really take off after 1991, this farm bills will also not provide a boost to investment from private sector.

I don't know what earlier policies ran us to the ground.. which era are you talking about? 

anyway you talk about aloe vera, when the conversation is on MSP. tell me who stopped Ambani from starting a food processing unit near your town right now?

haha.. obviously. after I read the nothing burger explanation you gave for MSP, you certainly don't deserve the audacity to call other farmers names. Lets hear a stronger argument against the protesting farmers. About the bills, they are decent. nothing great, but nothing too harmful too. And they can easily be pulled back and reforms initiated in a different route, like I explained earlier with govt investment and eNAM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalisation_in_India#:~:text=The reform was prompted by,in the 1990s and 2000s.

Right from nationalisation of institutions to devaluing of a rupee to license raj, there were several policies that ran our economy to the ground before 1991.

If we are unsure about what led to us almost being bankrupt before 1991, what else can I say. And, time and again, you say I called farmers names? What names? If I said, some video was stupid simplification of the issue, it is stupid simplification of the issue and not name calling.

Corporates setting up processing units need not necessarily come from Ambani. Below is a list of private food processing units in AP alone.

https://apfps.com/investorportal/#our-projects

I am willing to hear what your concerns about the bills are and how you see them as detrimental to the farmers. I see nothing in the bills that would warrant what is happening. Middlemen are/were/will be leeches in a agri economy. Parasites that need to be sent out. I am not sure, if many of the people that are supporting the protests have visited mandis ever in their life and saw what happens with the farmers at mandis. If there is a bill that removes the monopoly of the mandis it should be a welcome change. And what burger explanation about MSP are you talking about? Do you have quantitative/qualitative points against my argument? If there is,  I am yet to see one. 

And, coming to capitalists, they are not plain evil as the commies paint them to be. If they were, China/Russia would not have had so many billionaires.

[Dosakai]

2 hours ago, RSUCHOU said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalisation_in_India#:~:text=The reform was prompted by,in the 1990s and 2000s.

Right from nationalisation of institutions to devaluing of a rupee to license raj, there were several policies that ran our economy to the ground before 1991.

If we are unsure about what led to us almost being bankrupt before 1991, what else can I say. And, time and again, you say I called farmers names? What names? If I said, some video was stupid simplification of the issue, it is stupid simplification of the issue and not name calling.

Corporates setting up processing units need not necessarily come from Ambani. Below is a list of private food processing units in AP alone.

https://apfps.com/investorportal/#our-projects

I am willing to hear what your concerns about the bills are and how you see them as detrimental to the farmers. I see nothing in the bills that would warrant what is happening. Middlemen are/were/will be leeches in a agri economy. Parasites that need to be sent out. I am not sure, if many of the people that are supporting the protests have visited mandis ever in their life and saw what happens with the farmers at mandis. If there is a bill that removes the monopoly of the mandis it should be a welcome change. And what burger explanation about MSP are you talking about? Do you have quantitative/qualitative points against my argument? If there is,  I am yet to see one. 

And, coming to capitalists, they are not plain evil as the commies paint them to be. If they were, China/Russia would not have had so many billionaires.

I thnk you have serious comprehension issues. I didn't say bills are detrimental to farmers. 

you are just saying regular talking points that dont address what I brought up. The fact that most of the things that can be achieved through the bill can be achieved outside of it too. 

anyway, I don't want to get into childish capitalsim vs commies arguments. you guys are really stuck in some kind of loop

[gallikukka]

On 2/9/2021 at 6:23 PM, Telugodura456 said:

THe pamphlet clearly says made by citti.net a pro bjp news outlet. That paid guy simply forwarded it.

sare paid badacuw ey anukunkundaam

you having started the thread and clearly seem to know more on this topic

what is the wrong this in his 2 part slides tweet , i just want to know  to pick a side 

 

[Telugodura456]

6 hours ago, RSUCHOU said:

Nope. What MSP is there for other crops which are returning profits already? Potatoes, capsicum, cauliflower, broccoli, watermelon.. the list is lengthy. They are sustaining the demand without an MSP. MSP is regulatory and detrimental. If you get a chance, please read what every agricultural economist worth his salt is saying on the Agri reforms. I come from a family that has over a 150 acres of undivided farm lands. We invest on agriculture for the passion from the money we cousins earn from our jobs. Do you know we have not seen a single rupee of profit on our investments. Infact we lose money. We are slowly making progress into diversifying the crops. Agriculture is way too different on the ground that what you hear on this forum. MSP is a trap that has spoilt the Jatt heartland. I clearly gave the reasons on how it spoilt Haryana and Punjab in one of my earlier posts. Please do read if you have some time.

Profits vunte then why are farmers not producing it - you are simply contradicting yourself.

MSP is not a trap designed to spoil the jat farmland. If you think indian govt thinks so much about the farmer that it wants to spoint them then i dont know what to say. Do you feel spoiled? you have 150 acres without a single profit.

MSP is the policy of delhi to protect itself from hunger when in 60s even the upper classes in delhi did not know where the next meal will come from. They came up with MSP to encourage hardy farmers of punjab/haryana to produce and those farmers respond admirable taking control of agriculture learning new methods using hybrid seeds.

Ippudu avasaram aipoindhi MSP ledh yem ledh ambani ammuko ante yetta. Make sure the farmers get remunerative prices in other crops too. If you give MSP there maybe they will swithc. You cant pull rug under their feet like this.

If you force out all these farmers from farming and give millions of acres to corporates yes they may produce priftable - is that what you want? poverty for millions and riches for new ?

 

Farmers are not fools - top economists like Amartya sen have criticized the bill. Listen to farmers themselves - they are extremely articulate and know everything they need to know.