Where soviets failed economically

[Midnightsun]

Gorbachev's more radical critics would say he didn’t move fast enough to create a market economy, but the reason he didn’t was that the very effort to do so would produce chaos, which in fact it did under [Boris] Yeltsin.

[Telugodura456]

34 minutes ago, RSUCHOU said:

Well, I am neither a citizen nor investor of China. I have zero incentive in both the cases. People that lost money in Evergrande are all middle class. China's housing costs in urban cities are driven by the disparity in supply and demand. By knocking the biggest player with holdings running into several lakh units, how will the prices reduce. There will definitely be a slump in the market due to uncertainity. But, that does not take away the demand for housing and within no time, the market will comeback with a vengeance. The landbank in the cities is entirely controlled by the government and with extreme urbanization, why would the hosing market go down. If the government does that by reducing the cost on the new housing, would it not lead to defaults from people that already bought it at higher prices? Is it not another subprime crisis? 

Light theesuko bro. You are very light on facts. There is never a supply problem of anything in china - especially things which depend on chinese industry. They built huge number of houses. chinese housing prices nothing to do with supply issue. its a little complex than that. And tied to the way these companies secure loans with land banks and all that.

They wont reduce  prices sharply - they are trying to plateu the price. Your salary now is 100, the apartment cost is 1000- so its 10 times expensive. Now after 5 years your salary is 150. Apartment cost is 1000 - its only 6 times more expensive.

[RSUCHOU]

2 minutes ago, Telugodura456 said:

Light theesuko bro. You are very light on facts. There is never a supply problem of anything in china - especially things which depend on chinese industry. They built huge number of houses. chinese housing prices nothing to do with supply issue. its a little complex than that. And tied to the way these companies secure loans with land banks and all that.

They wont reduce  prices sharply - they are trying to plateu the price. Your salary now is 100, the apartment cost is 1000- so its 10 times expensive. Now after 5 years your salary is 150. Apartment cost is 1000 - its only 6 times more expensive.

ok anna. Thank you for enlightening. Let us speak after 6 years. 

[kittaya]

chinese industrail revolution , where metal is the main resource, which was imported from all over the world, 

 

this has bought so many changes to chainese culture 

[Telugodura456]

14 minutes ago, RSUCHOU said:

ok anna. Thank you for enlightening. Let us speak after 6 years. 

Are you prasad r ?

[hyperbole]

Capitalism has a Motivation to exceed and succeed, socialist economy is not a market economy and there is no motivation factor which is why we don’t see steve jobs, bill gates, or elon musk . China’s is more a case of cheap and abundant labor, direct access to north America via ocean, China’s success can be attributed to USA again a capitalist economy hunting for low cost manufacturing, all these contributed to Chinese, Korean and Taiwan success along with their herd mentality. Same low cost manufacturing is moving to other parts such as south east asia, India(services) and Bangladesh (textiles).

apart from weapons trading what has russia really succeed in - name one marque consumer product they made or do you remember anyone marveling at russian engineering  - british, gernmans french and italians made  super cars, uSA made everything that people longed for

[kdapparao]

6 hours ago, Telugodura456 said:

THe recent destruction of an-225 - the largest plane ever built in the world - bought focus to the awesome industrial might of soviet union. The plane was built in 1985.

Soviets sent the first man to space, first animal to space, first inter planetary travel, invented many medicines, had advanced military stuff - then how they failed ?

And all of this was done by simple govt employees receiving standard salary.

One explanation is that this model  - while worked beautifully in advanced stuff - failed badly in basic stuff like making 100 varieties of cola or ensuring enough wheat and meat in grocery stores.

Chinese used to be shocked when visiting soviet professors use to take large bottles of coca cola with them when they were leaving.

Unfortunately soviets then did not realize that these are easy stuff and can be fixed easily with some reform like chinese did.

First covid vaccine Sputnik! They are still first.. Us is like pacha mafia with their media they just glorify anthe 

[RSUCHOU]

1 hour ago, Telugodura456 said:

Are you prasad r ?

No. I am not.

[Raven_Rayes]

4 hours ago, RSUCHOU said:

One has to see to believe. China followed by Russia are two countries that made me very very sad. For someone that was a proud comrade in my youth, the visit to Russia early in my career was an eye opener. Freedom of expression, equality, right to grow are not things you find in any of these places. 

Nice joke. Proud comrade in youth, now a nationalist and nativist? 

Anyway these days even current communists are nationalists. World is fcuked.

[Raven_Rayes]

1 hour ago, hyperbole said:

Capitalism has a Motivation to exceed and succeed, socialist economy is not a market economy and there is no motivation factor which is why we don’t see steve jobs, bill gates, or elon musk . China’s is more a case of cheap and abundant labor, direct access to north America via ocean, China’s success can be attributed to USA again a capitalist economy hunting for low cost manufacturing, all these contributed to Chinese, Korean and Taiwan success along with their herd mentality. Same low cost manufacturing is moving to other parts such as south east asia, India(services) and Bangladesh (textiles).

apart from weapons trading what has russia really succeed in - name one marque consumer product they made or do you remember anyone marveling at russian engineering  - british, gernmans french and italians made  super cars, uSA made everything that people longed for

Who said socialism cannot be a market economy? 

Elon Musk, Steve Jobs are all examples of worst excess of capitalism. 

Every ism, even communism, can have effective markets if they are set up that way. 

But yes largely, it was Neo liberalism (not capitalism) that was able to create a global somewhat competitive market. But all markets are inherently rigged. But atleast under Neo liberalism, there's some help for those who couldn't make it in the rugged markets via welfare. 

[RSUCHOU]

8 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

Nice joke. Proud comrade in youth, now a nationalist and nativist? 

Anyway these days even current communists are nationalists. World is fcuked.

I don't identify with being a comrade as much now. I see the fallacies of the argument much better than when I was young. That said, I did not say I was a nationalist or a nativist. All that I said was in context of economics. If you want to make assumptions, be my guest.

[Raven_Rayes]

2 hours ago, Telugodura456 said:

what you are saying simply does not match what thousands of pieces of evidence are there. Moreover you are giving some really old links. You are trying to do some campaign here.

Evergrande is to cool property sector and reduce housing prices - which are already cooling there. It is part of strategy to make life easy for chinese by reducing housing costs.

don't understand why you want to defend everything, and with very bad appeals to emotion, than arguments.

is your mental model of China that central to your existence as a person? weird guy.

[Raven_Rayes]

22 minutes ago, RSUCHOU said:

I don't identify with being a comrade as much now. I see the fallacies of the argument much better than when I was young. That said, I did not say I was a nationalist or a nativist. All that I said was in context of economics. If you want to make assumptions, be my guest.

I thought you said something about 'freedom of expression'.

its a funny thing. I don't think most people even want it. Atleast for others. So to build an economic system around repressive free speech is quite possible.

people also don't want equality. They like to think they are better than others.

that's why they don't have any problem when govt created billionaires like Bill Gates, Elon Musk etc profit from cornering benefits of govt investments into targeted areas like semiconductor and EV.

the system we live under is no different from communism. but atleast it has made a lot of people rich and disconnected from everyday politics. Communism is hard because people don't want to be political every day of their life. They want to be happy and enjoy life, and if possible pour venom on the neighbour of a different caste/color/creed etc. Neoliberalism offers all this, plus a false sense of achievement.

I'm going to assume everyone I meet in/from India is a nationalist (based on my experience), unless they expressly say that their hatred for India is visceral. fundamental to their existence.

 

[Raven_Rayes]

2 hours ago, Telugodura456 said:

Light theesuko bro. You are very light on facts. There is never a supply problem of anything in china - especially things which depend on chinese industry. They built huge number of houses. chinese housing prices nothing to do with supply issue. its a little complex than that. And tied to the way these companies secure loans with land banks and all that.

They wont reduce  prices sharply - they are trying to plateu the price. Your salary now is 100, the apartment cost is 1000- so its 10 times expensive. Now after 5 years your salary is 150. Apartment cost is 1000 - its only 6 times more expensive.

what an argument. lol.

china has the magic pill it seems. every country should have it too.

[Telugodura456]

30 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

don't understand why you want to defend everything, and with very bad appeals to emotion, than arguments.

is your mental model of China that central to your existence as a person? weird guy.

where you get this confidence to be so cocky i dont understand. you have strange combination of dumbness with cockiness.