What economic domination in Hyd by andhras ba

[Raven_Rayes]

Just now, Telugodura456 said:

Thats not a proposition. THats a lazy prediction - you need to do a better job in drafting a proposition.

A porposition would be "china will not catch up to BECAUSE blah b;ah".

Then we can discuss the blah blah.

fair enough.. I was reticent to give away the reason why I think so. I agree that its not a proposition. I'll find some other.

coz i really don't want to talk productively about chip manufacturing in this db.

[Telugodura456]

3 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

fair enough.. I was reticent to give away the reason why I think so. I agree that its not a proposition. I'll find some other.

coz i really don't want to talk productively about chip manufacturing in this db.

I made one for you

[Raven_Rayes]

12 minutes ago, Telugodura456 said:

Let me re-draft your garbage as actual proposition then we can debate 

"China is likely to catch up with US/Taiwan/Japan in fabricating high end semiconductors in 5- 10 years span. Because :

a) China is pouring money where its mouth is

b)China steadily increasing its scientifc output in journals and patents

c) China has demonstrated in the past, its ability to master technology frontiers in space"

Now thats a proposition to  debate. Each of the points can be debated whether they are relvant or not.

that's still not a good proposition to debate on.

Chinese ability to catch up to the US depends on whether they can poach Taiwanese engineers, and whether they can convince Korea to not team up with US. Its almost impossible for them to match Taiwan with just homemade engineers.

I agree I framed a very poor proposition. but yours is a better proposition, but way too easy to argue against.

If you really want to debate on this proposition, this is how I would take the conversation.

a) throwing money at semiconductors is not gonna do much good

b) chinese output in semiconductor research is probably not that high (I have to check). but there are other ways to argue against this too. that even if research output is high, it doesn't translate to leading edge tech.

c) mastering a mars mission cannot be equated to designing/mass manufacturing a chip.. I think this proposition is completely offbase.

[Raven_Rayes]

1 minute ago, Telugodura456 said:

I made one for you

its not acceptable.

[Telugodura456]

1 minute ago, Raven_Rayes said:

that's still not a good proposition to debate on.

a) meaningless statement

b) it doesn't really correspond to actual hi-tech industrial output..

c) no idea what 'mastering frontiers in space' means.

Chinese ability to catch up to the US depends on whether they can poach Taiwanese engineers, and whether they can convince Korea to not team up with US. Its almost impossible for them to match Taiwan with just homemade engineers.

I agree I framed a very poor proposition.

hahaha - you arelady debated. thats fine ra narsi - i give you the reins  - come up with a propostion.

whats the secret behind taiwanese engineers capabiltiy ?

[Telugodura456]

5 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

its not acceptable.

Mine is a valid proposition. It was ofcourse casual - we are in a informal board.

I could have said china put in $1.5 trillion usd in semiconductors instead of they put money where mouth is. I was being informal.

Yours on the other hand is not even a proposition - there is no fact or value or policy or anything i can discern from it.

[Raven_Rayes]

Just now, Telugodura456 said:

Mine is a valid proposition. It was ofcourse casual - we are in a informal board.

I could have said china put in $1.5 trillion usd in semiconductors instead of they put money where mouth is. I was being informal.

Yours on the other hand is not even a proposition - there is no fact or value or policy or anything i can discern from it.

yes. I agree. c) is not a vald proposition though. It's impossible to argue for/against.

its easy to prove you wrong with your proposition.

that's why I gave an open statement so you could fill it with whatever you wanted to. you picked ones that are way too easy to argue against.

[Raven_Rayes]

10 minutes ago, Telugodura456 said:

hahaha - you arelady debated. thats fine ra narsi - i give you the reins  - come up with a propostion.

whats the secret behind taiwanese engineers capabiltiy ?

save it for the debate.

secret of taiwanese engineer is being exposed to western tech for decades on end. working closely with designers from the west.

 

[Telugodura456]

Just now, Raven_Rayes said:

yes. I agree. c) is not a vald proposition though. It's impossible to argue for/against.

its easy to prove you wrong with your proposition.

that's why I gave an open statement so you could fill it with whatever you wanted to. you picked ones that are way too easy to argue against.

how is c) not a valid porposition, It is a proposition of fact. China made awesome strides in space - built a space station all by themselves. it all requires disciplined and industrial application of scient and technology.

Why cant it be translated to semiconductors ? unless you think there is some magic mystery about the,

[Telugodura456]

Just now, Raven_Rayes said:

save it for the debate.

secret of taiwanese engineer is being exposed to western tech for decades on end.

Soviets had no western tech but matched them toe to toe in sectors they choose to compete.

[Raven_Rayes]

2 minutes ago, Telugodura456 said:

how is c) not a valid porposition, It is a proposition of fact. China made awesome strides in space - built a space station all by themselves. it all requires disciplined and industrial application of scient and technology.

Its irrelevant to whether they can compete in the semiconductor industry.

avoiding such handwaving is why you need to prepare.

if that was true, they didn't have to wait until Donald Trump made it hard for Chinese to source US chips  to start developing their own semiconductors.

just like they built a space station, they could've built a monster chip industry by now in India far surpassing those in the US.

[Telugodura456]

2 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

Its irrelevant to whether they can compete in the semiconductor industry.

avoiding such handwaving is why you need to prepare.

if that was true, they didn't have to wait until Donald Trump made it hard for Chinese to source US chips  to start developing their own semiconductors.

just like they built a space station, they could've built a monster chip industry by now in India far surpassing those in the US.

Hahaha .. why did us not be able to compete with taiwan then ?

Why would chinese bother duplicating capital intensive chip industry when they can fab them at cheap in taiwan while focussing on  design of the  best chips already and making very lucrative and profitable applications of these chips in mobile phone?

why compete with an already ultra efficient chip fab industry located in taiwan (already considered china btw).

 

its like usa competing in gorwing date palms to get rid of middle east dependency - makes no sense.

[Raven_Rayes]

6 minutes ago, Telugodura456 said:

Soviets had no western tech but matched them toe to toe in sectors they choose to compete.

again you are getting carried away.

c) is irrelevant to whether chinese can dominate semiconductor manufacturing.

[Telugodura456]

11 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

save it for the debate.

secret of taiwanese engineer is being exposed to western tech for decades on end. working closely with designers from the west.

 

First of all its doubtful if tawainese engineers really had that much exposure.

If so then why west itself couldnt built these fabs and outcompete taiwan?

Intel is a direct competitor to taiwan. Intel had access to PhD's from stanford and MIT, not to mention cheap and studious indian labor through offshore farms.  it is a very well capitalized firm. 

WHy did it fail against TSMC ? TSMC is known to recruite local taiwaneese grads.

[Telugodura456]

Just now, Raven_Rayes said:

again you are getting carried away.

c) is irrelevant to whether chinese can dominate semiconductor manufacturing.

I am talkig about your argument that proximity to west gives you tech compnaies.