quickgun_murugun Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 6 hours ago, Raven_Rayes said: I highlighted your silly interpretation of what I said about TSMC's business model and how that cannot be replicated in the US. no idea why you are so jumpy over nothing. that particular interpretation is very characteristic of your dishonest trolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickgun_murugun Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 6 hours ago, Raven_Rayes said: I highlighted your silly interpretation of what I said about TSMC's business model and how that cannot be replicated in the US. no idea why you are so jumpy over nothing. that particular interpretation is very characteristic of your dishonest trolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven_Rayes Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 Taiwan currently makes US the chips that it needs at a pittance. Something that is not possible in the US. TSMC engineers are seriously underpaid, and its insane profits are used only to reinvest in tech to keep up. 'reinvesting' means buying the latest tools from asml and others. that's all TSMC is to US. a cheap factory that they can exploit. Its not even majority owned by Taiwanese. Mostly by US financial institutions. Its tech is powered mostly by the US. Even its founder is MIT Stanford educated, and had a 25yr high profile career with Texas instruments and other US companies, before hitting on the idea for TSMC. Taiwan's tech is not indigenous. and US can pull the plug any time it chooses to. TSMC is part of the western semiconductor ecosystem lead by the US. There's no way Chinese can build one without stealing from the west, which immediately closes all western markets to its products. China will be bullied into submission in the semiconductor race by the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
id_ego_superego Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven_Rayes Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 Taiwan is prepared to take on its immediate humongous rival just to appease US. It doesn't have to. it does because its future is dependent on US. Its entire industrial ecosystem collapses if US cuts off its supply chain. Hurting both the US and Taiwan. but completely decimating Taiwan. pretty sure US is gonna transfer all the tech back to its shores and leave Taiwan high and dry and back into the embrace of China. while it'll start investing in India to make it the next 'factory of the world'. until India starts wagging its finger. or may be Vietnam, Thailand, Philippines are better candidates to replace Taiwan in semiconductors in to avail cheap labour in the long run, given they are all autocratic nations, compared to India. Its hard to predict. One thing is sure, China-US chip rivalry's biggest victim is Taiwan. Its already building its latest 5nm fab in phoenix to appease the US. majority of the development of fab tech will move to the US after this happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven_Rayes Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 TSMC owes a lot to the US. both with its tech, and to have roped it into US global supply chain for semiconductors. within half a generation, Taiwan was able to overtake Japan in semiconductor manufacturing thanks mainly to the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven_Rayes Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 anyway if its a debate, we should have it on zoom (minus video feed, plus shared computer screens that allows each other to present papers that support their claim).. coz debating over text is total waste of time. it can held over many days few hours each day. until you or I agree that one of us is wrong. or one of us loses his sh1t completely. pretty obvious who its gonna be. debating over text is a waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telugodura456 Posted August 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Raven_Rayes said: do you even understand English? for someone who promptly corrected my 'proposition', you have a very silly way to approach any debate. picking and choosing random words to mean whatever you think you want it to, so you can claim that you cornered me. what a pathetic coward. West can make a fab better than the taiwanese. Its just that they don't need to. why would they when Taiwan is ready to do it for them, while enslaving its people to a pittance in exchange for western tech to make chips for the US? I think this debate is goin to go nowhere, with you whining even before the debate starts. And I'm going to focus majority of the debate on how worthless asian tech is, compared to western in literally every semiconductor area. LOL - let me get this right. You are saying "western" technology plus slave labor = world beating bleeding edge semiconductors ? Is that what you are saying ? I give a chimpanzee an expensive bosch powertool and whip it as it needed and it will make masterpiece furniture ? Is that really what you are saying ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telugodura456 Posted August 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 Average TSMC salary seems to be 1.8 million NT or about $60k USD for a very low cost of living area. Do greeks who are also part of "west" earn more than that. In fact thats pretty high salary even in UK - the core of "west". But those are slave labor for you? - lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telugodura456 Posted August 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 https://focustaiwan.tw/business/202106300017 Business TSMC's median salary hits NT$1.81 million in 2020 06/30/2021 07:07 PM Taipei, June 30 (CNA) The median employee salary at Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. (TSMC), the world's largest contract chipmaker, reached NT$1.81 million (US$64,874) in 2020, up from NT$1.63 million a year earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven_Rayes Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 I don't know how you think you can even defend your proposition, given the current reality is that US can kill TSMC anytime they chose to. forget China. US chose Taiwan to make its semiconductors because its cheap. They have cheap engineers back in Taiwan. which is why FabTech in the US will be a commercial failure. It's most likely a stopgap arrangement until they train enough Thailand engineers to move the factory to there.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telugodura456 Posted August 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Raven_Rayes said: without either collaborating with the US/Europe, its impossible for any country to build their own chip industry. let alone lead it. because they hold all the patents in the field. India is getting packaging IC tech via a chennai company called polymatech. They are already operational in Oragadam near Chennai. Its mostly Japanese tech. what fabs are there in Europe btw - what semiconductors really? what do you mean by "west" - you constantly hype that word "west". Does france have any company in semiconductors ? as far as i know semi conduction industry is basically us plus korea plus taiwan plus japan plus china. Where is this "west" here ? what does france do ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven_Rayes Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 8 minutes ago, Telugodura456 said: LOL - let me get this right. You are saying "western" technology plus slave labor = world beating bleeding edge semiconductors ? Is that what you are saying ? I give a chimpanzee an expensive bosch powertool and whip it as it needed and it will make masterpiece furniture ? Is that really what you are saying ? not slave labour literally, but yes, chip manufacturing needs massive number of engineers. And Taiwan can provide these at scale for very low pay. Not a chimpanzee, but you don't need an genius artist to create factory furniture, just some competent wood worksmen who agree to work for a low pay. Taiwan is that to the US. Its no innovator. majority of the IP that TSMC uses is from the US itself. US can kill TSMC anytime it wants to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telugodura456 Posted August 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Raven_Rayes said: I don't know how you think you can even defend your proposition, given the current reality is that US can kill TSMC anytime they chose to. forget China. US chose Taiwan to make its semiconductors because its cheap. They have cheap engineers back in Taiwan. which is why FabTech in the US will be a commercial failure. It's most likely a stopgap arrangement until they train enough Thailand engineers to move the factory to there.. speculative nonsense. anything "can" happen. we will will talk when it happens. Right now TSMC is a world beating company - because they have their own masterful technology which can integrate compex technologies all over world and produce fantastic chips ? Do you know why INtel gave up on its high end chips fab? it couldnt get the yield TSMS can get. In otherwords they were technologically inferior to TSMC in fab. Nothing to do with cost. Wages are not an issue - they can get h1bs if they like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven_Rayes Posted August 19, 2022 Report Share Posted August 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, Telugodura456 said: what fabs are there in Europe btw - what semiconductors really? what do you mean by "west" - you constantly hype that word "west". Does france have any company in semiconductors ? as far as i know semi conduction industry is basically us plus korea plus taiwan plus japan plus china. Where is this "west" here ? what does france do ? it makes no economic sense to have fabs in France or even in the US. do you understand why Globalism is a success? it was not ethnocentrism that got you cheap phones. It was literally imposing its global order and sharing its tech under its terms, that got whatever you are enjoying in the world today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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