Is USA done?

[pakeer_saab]

On 1/2/2023 at 10:40 PM, andhra_jp said:

Just now seen this post in SOS global Indians FB page majority are suggesting to stay back in India..

 

So basically when one is considering US salary , visa hassles , expenses , health concerns all come into picture... its not like US suits every homo sapien in this planet...

 

it is not a good option to move to US now that everyone knows the pain points of costs and uncertainty at the expense of freedom of home country

[telugu_fan]

On 1/1/2023 at 10:16 PM, krishnaaa said:

US has lot of debt and has not much growth left.

With average age increasing and immigrants being mistreated and the political system taking a long time to implement reforms....do you guys think that US has any future?

While India is just getting started....our political system...although imperfect....is implementing reforms at a rapid pace.

NRIs would probably start coming back in less than a decade.

What do you guys think? Any rebuttal?

People going to India should have a clear cut view on why they are going back, they need to think with all the factors in money, relations, property or money to be saved/made, what sort of teaching or family support will be available for kids and what all issues they might encounter to make a smooth transition.

People expecting services to be on the level of the US will be disappointed in some cases.

India works on Indian issues and the US on US concepts, as long as people don't intermingle those two it is supposed to work relatively smoothly.

The reforms bought by govt will always take time to bear fruit. PVNR opening up the economy in 1992 didn't give immediate benefits, but its still accruing. The govt needs to do more on reforms, right now most of the infra is for manufacturing and transporting goods across country, so it will take atleast 10 more years for most of them to bear fruit that is visible openly.

Rest all discussion on Kashmir, North East, religion and national anthem is all fluff in this thread..

[pakeer_saab]

5 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

Is USA done? is a very big question with lot of parameters.

Defining it more will send this thread into one direction - USA is on top in many sectors - pure R&D for STEM, military spending, technologies, green ev companies, quality of life (which itself is a big set of variables), trade, dollars and what more.

it depends what you are looking for, everyone will have different set that is important for them as envisioned in this thread - personal safety, pollution, access to basic infra, govt responses to their requests and so on.

Everyone arguing on these requirements as paramount will cause this thread to wander aimlessly.

USA will try to ensure it maintains it lead over other countries even if it means it has to destroy/subvert other countries lead in the said fields.

The biggest problems that US will face will be from their progressive brigade if it grows more powerful and introduces gender studies to elementary school kids and puberty blockers to middle schoolers will ensure next generation decline.

If the dollar is removed as the reserve currency from the world (there will be a lot of chaos prior to that and hence since), then all the people singing praises of US and quality of life will catch the first flight back to their homelands.

In absence of any of the above China will pip the US at current trajectory with no changes to China or the US. And the music will start once China becomes the new pole.

while i agree one the self-destruction mode of US, there is deep political division just like we see in India between congress and BJP

at no point, i am convinced that China will overtake US, China has much bigger problems to deal with and a countrycannot achieve their highest level of success with centralization, it has never happened in history

[telugu_fan]

2 minutes ago, pakeer_saab said:

while i agree one the self-destruction mode of US, there is deep political division just like we see in India between congress and BJP

at no point, i am convinced that China will overtake US, China has much bigger problems to deal with and a countrycannot achieve their highest level of success with centralization, it has never happened in history

I agree with you regarding the US political divide, however when i said china pipping the US i meant in number terms for trade and economy whether it happens in 2030 or 2035 or 2050 is besides the point, whether China itself changes socially is a different question (which i don't think will happen).

You also have to remember if the lower of the two country have deterred the bigger one that itself is considered as a victory.

china sees America towing its line as a victory in itself, if people remember in the 90's China made same statements on Taiwan that it does today, then the Clinton admin sent an aircraft carrier through the Taiwan straits and china didn't/couldn't do anything. Today the US carriers don't do that anymore either due to dongfeng missiles or due to US politics which ever may be the reason. so if not by force you are forcing the adversary to come to your line of thinking.

US is vacating many of its places and China is increasing it sphere of influence whether its Asia, Africa, middle east or South America.

So china pipping the US is based on all these factors.

[pakeer_saab]

29 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

I agree with you regarding the US political divide, however when i said china pipping the US i meant in number terms for trade and economy whether it happens in 2030 or 2035 or 2050 is besides the point, whether China itself changes socially is a different question (which i don't think will happen).

You also have to remember if the lower of the two country have deterred the bigger one that itself is considered as a victory.

china sees America towing its line as a victory in itself, if people remember in the 90's China made same statements on Taiwan that it does today, then the Clinton admin sent an aircraft carrier through the Taiwan straits and china didn't/couldn't do anything. Today the US carriers don't do that anymore either due to dongfeng missiles or due to US politics which ever may be the reason. so if not by force you are forcing the adversary to come to your line of thinking.

US is vacating many of its places and China is increasing it sphere of influence whether its Asia, Africa, middle east or South America.

So china pipping the US is based on all these factors.

US does not need political messaging anymore, US spends more than next 27 countries on defense

China still cannot take over Taiwan is a clear indication that messaging is happening secretly, US has started saving on overseas operations for future wars and biggest objectives

China is a creation of US, US MIC ensures there is a country that appears as strong as US to continue to prop up defense spending, number of black projects are phenomenal

in the next 5 yrs, world will be multipolar for sure, and US will still be controlling a major bloc (West vs East)

 

[pakeer_saab]

4 hours ago, telugu_fan said:

I agree with you regarding the US political divide, however when i said china pipping the US i meant in number terms for trade and economy whether it happens in 2030 or 2035 or 2050 is besides the point, whether China itself changes socially is a different question (which i don't think will happen).

You also have to remember if the lower of the two country have deterred the bigger one that itself is considered as a victory.

china sees America towing its line as a victory in itself, if people remember in the 90's China made same statements on Taiwan that it does today, then the Clinton admin sent an aircraft carrier through the Taiwan straits and china didn't/couldn't do anything. Today the US carriers don't do that anymore either due to dongfeng missiles or due to US politics which ever may be the reason. so if not by force you are forcing the adversary to come to your line of thinking.

US is vacating many of its places and China is increasing it sphere of influence whether its Asia, Africa, middle east or South America.

So china pipping the US is based on all these factors.

US is vacating many places because it is moving towards Space Force and surveillance-based controls/monitoring

US is preparing for battles of 2040 now, I see China and US are nothing but enemies in bed outsmarting each other and nothing else

 

 

[Raven_Rayes]

On 1/6/2023 at 2:59 AM, telugu_fan said:

Is USA done? is a very big question with lot of parameters.

Defining it more will send this thread into one direction - USA is on top in many sectors - pure R&D for STEM, military spending, technologies, green ev companies, quality of life (which itself is a big set of variables), trade, dollars and what more.

it depends what you are looking for, everyone will have different set that is important for them as envisioned in this thread - personal safety, pollution, access to basic infra, govt responses to their requests and so on.

Everyone arguing on these requirements as paramount will cause this thread to wander aimlessly.

USA going down is not absolute. USA will try to ensure it maintains it lead over other countries even if it means it has to destroy/subvert other countries lead in the said fields.

The biggest problems that US will face will be from their progressive brigade if it grows more powerful and introduces gender studies to elementary school kids and puberty blockers to middle schoolers will ensure next generation decline.

people forget that US became the top dog by being extremely ruthless and cutthroat and attracting talent and building their own and not through gender bender studies and equality. As long as equality is followed along with the basic R&D research it will not be an issue, only when you make it either or the US will start slipping.

If the dollar is removed as the reserve currency from the world (there will be a lot of chaos prior to that and hence since), then all the people singing praises of US and quality of life will catch the first flight back to their homelands with all the trillions of dollars of debt accumilated.

Even in absence of any of the above, China will pip the US at current trajectory with no changes to China or the US. And the music will start once China becomes the new top pole.

India is doomed, nevertheless.

and your assertion that LGBT people are soft is just inaccurate. just like the regular population, LGBT also has cutthroat people that are ruthless in their pursuit of power.

do you think advocating for LGBT makes one soft? US progressives too are not some softies. They display almost similar levels of nationalist fervour and are equally disgusting as the nationalists and 'rightists'.

India is doomed because even its loudest asshole group - the Sangh, pales in comparison to the violence that a rag tag anarchist group in the US can unleash.

India is waste. Indians are cowards. may be in the future they can find enough balls to fight for what they actually want. But right now India is a waste of space.

[Raven_Rayes]

On 1/6/2023 at 3:05 AM, telugu_fan said:

People going to India should have a clear cut view on why they are going back, they need to think with all the factors in money, relations, property or money to be saved/made, what sort of teaching or family support will be available for kids and what all issues they might encounter to make a smooth transition.

People expecting services to be on the level of the US will be disappointed in some cases.

India works on Indian issues and the US on US concepts, as long as people don't intermingle those two it is supposed to work relatively smoothly.

The reforms bought by govt will always take time to bear fruit. PVNR opening up the economy in 1992 didn't give immediate benefits, but its still accruing. The govt needs to do more on reforms, right now most of the infra is for manufacturing and transporting goods across country, so it will take atleast 10 more years for most of them to bear fruit that is visible openly.

Rest all discussion on Kashmir, North East, religion and national anthem is all fluff in this thread..

PVNR opened up the economy in 1991, and even considering that window, China grew many more faster than India.

yeah India can grow really really fast. If it does, it will be scary and dangerous for the world. thankfully Indians are losers and will only get kicked around by the rest of the world, trying to desperately save face via youtube clips of dumbfcuks like Jaishankar 'giving it back to the west'.

Indians don't want to grow. just look around yourself. They want to feel like they have grown. but they really don't want to. because actually growing requires growth on multiple fronts.. including empathy for LGBT issues. which scares people like you.

how do you think cowards can succeed? They cannot.

[Raven_Rayes]

On 1/6/2023 at 3:17 AM, telugu_fan said:

I agree with you regarding the US political divide, however when i said china pipping the US i meant in number terms for trade and economy whether it happens in 2030 or 2035 or 2050 is besides the point, whether China itself changes socially is a different question (which i don't think will happen).

You also have to remember if the lower of the two country have deterred the bigger one that itself is considered as a victory.

china sees America towing its line as a victory in itself, if people remember in the 90's China made same statements on Taiwan that it does today, then the Clinton admin sent an aircraft carrier through the Taiwan straits and china didn't/couldn't do anything. Today the US carriers don't do that anymore either due to dongfeng missiles or due to US politics which ever may be the reason. so if not by force you are forcing the adversary to come to your line of thinking.

US is vacating many of its places and China is increasing it sphere of influence whether its Asia, Africa, middle east or South America.

So china pipping the US is based on all these factors.

so your basic argument is - huge population, lots of leverage, equals victory.

unless the poor living around a mansion raid the mansion and kills its inhabitants, radically changing the make up of that neighbourhood, the best poor can do is to build better houses for themselves and wait for the mansion to self destruct.

self destruction out of old age, or because of excessive wrong investments elsewhere. They can't become richer than the mansion around which they built their settlements, as long as the rich mansion is actively seeking power for itself.

US won't go down because of its LGBT pandering. If anything, it'll strengthen the US, coz the new psychos that crave for power will come from LGBT group, surprising all well laid plans of the 'conservative' old idiots India and China.

US will go down because nations everywhere will go down. I don't see a scenario where China beats US. I see every nation (including US) self combusting out of self contradiction.

Will an authoritarian regime rise out of it. most likely. But it won't be the current China or India. may be future will be owned by corporates. Who knows. at the moment thinking in terms of 'nations' seems pointless. especially a nation as pointless as India.

 

[telugu_fan]

On 1/12/2023 at 7:06 PM, Raven_Rayes said:

India is doomed, nevertheless.

and your assertion that LGBT people are soft is just inaccurate. just like the regular population, LGBT also has cutthroat people that are ruthless in their pursuit of power.

do you think advocating for LGBT makes one soft? US progressives too are not some softies. They display almost similar levels of nationalist fervour and are equally disgusting as the nationalists and 'rightists'.

India is doomed because even its loudest asshole group - the Sangh, pales in comparison to the violence that a rag tag anarchist group in the US can unleash.

India is waste. Indians are cowards. may be in the future they can find enough balls to fight for what they actually want. But right now India is a waste of space.

Raven_Reyes,

Please re-read what i have written, nowhere i have mentioned LGBT are soft, on the contrary if they were soft we wouldn't be seeing the gender studies being pushed. Every group based on their power/lobbying capacity atleast in the US try swaying policy decisions.

The issue is when US as a country is going whole hog on gender studies/harmone blockers for little children to satisfy one section of the society. A country taking stand on gender studies is very much different from a group advocating the same. Instead on focusing on best candidates for the job the seem to be promoting blind equality.

Its brings the case of equality of outcomes vs equality of opportunity with the US increasingly looking like it goes in the former direction. That is what I am alluding to in the post. US went for STEM and competition with erstwhile USSR to fuel its rise in tech and business (and also whole lot more reasons underlying) and it didn't go to the top by "appointing" people on equality basis without addressing the question of capability.

India being doomed or not is for Indian people to decide, not people in some db who look to be staying overseas. In India the people who shout the loudest are generally the ones in opposition and looking to come back to power. 🙂 All the current people in power were shouting the loudest when in opposition while those in opposition now are shouting the loudest, Telugu states are the best example.

[telugu_fan]

On 1/12/2023 at 7:13 PM, Raven_Rayes said:

PVNR opened up the economy in 1991, and even considering that window, China grew many more faster than India.

yeah India can grow really really fast. If it does, it will be scary and dangerous for the world. thankfully Indians are losers and will only get kicked around by the rest of the world, trying to desperately save face via youtube clips of dumbfcuks like Jaishankar 'giving it back to the west'.

Indians don't want to grow. just look around yourself. They want to feel like they have grown. but they really don't want to. because actually growing requires growth on multiple fronts.. including empathy for LGBT issues. which scares people like you.

how do you think cowards can succeed? They cannot.

China growth started way before 1991, which led Deng to famously quip "Hide your talons and bide your time", atleast from memory china went for basic amenities from mid 80's to mid 90's and then started their "next stage" of economic reforms with going whole hog of modernization atleast in terms of infra in the mid to early 2000's, when has India started on these fronts and where is the focus.

besides China doesn't deal with multi party democracy and elections and issues in courts or land acquisition issues. So not apples to apples comparison - you yourself have argued on this before i believe.

If you believe everything youtube influencer and videos show, then you yourself have to evaluate what you are watching, most of the videos are done to get clicks and generate revenue for content creators. But you can see what exactly Jai Shankar is  saying in the whole interview and multiple forums/locations to understand where exactly Indian diplomacy is heading and trying to do.

Having empathy for any group (LGBT, woamn, Kids, men, african-american, asian etc) doesn't mean i will be signing up with harmone blockers or education policies that have long term detrments for future generations that also includes my kids.

You seem to be missing context or history if you truly think the US is empathetic. they haven't talked about LGBT untill now as they have come of age in politics with some set % of voting populations. The US that got its independence in 1776 and promised emancipation of the African American community for their participation in civil war of 1860's but ultimately those right came into effect with Lyndon Johnson modifying them in 1969-1970 times frame.

The US which waged countless wars across globe over profits and restricting communism and bringing regime change thereby causing suffering to many countries and their people should be the last one talking about empathy.

India atleast gave voting rights to everyone after independence and communities tried rebuilding in their own way from impoverished status. taking what works for the US and trying to apply it to India or to any other country is foolishness without taking into account the social structures of the said countries.

India will need to do taking its population into account what it thinks is the best course forward and the US or any other country needs to take its own set of underlying circumstances.

[telugu_fan]

On 1/12/2023 at 7:32 PM, Raven_Rayes said:

so your basic argument is - huge population, lots of leverage, equals victory.

unless the poor living around a mansion raid the mansion and kills its inhabitants, radically changing the make up of that neighbourhood, the best poor can do is to build better houses for themselves and wait for the mansion to self destruct.

self destruction out of old age, or because of excessive wrong investments elsewhere. They can't become richer than the mansion around which they built their settlements, as long as the rich mansion is actively seeking power for itself.

US won't go down because of its LGBT pandering. If anything, it'll strengthen the US, coz the new psychos that crave for power will come from LGBT group, surprising all well laid plans of the 'conservative' old idiots India and China.

US will go down because nations everywhere will go down. I don't see a scenario where China beats US. I see every nation (including US) self combusting out of self contradiction.

Will an authoritarian regime rise out of it. most likely. But it won't be the current China or India. may be future will be owned by corporates. Who knows. at the moment thinking in terms of 'nations' seems pointless. especially a nation as pointless as India.

 

Re-read what i have written, I didn't speak of "huge population" as you put it. I said the perceived weaker of the two nations in a conflict needs to only deter the stronger one to have won the battle, atleast in the perception arena.

You see the same in the latest Ukr vs Big bad Russia, you will find the same arguments made by Pakistan to its people regarding India and the Chinese CCP telling to their masses regarding the US trade war or taiwan.

But i do agree that all nations go down because that seesm to be the natural flow of things - highs and lows, the questions is will we be alive till then to see anything or just pass away believing that to be the truth?

[Raven_Rayes]

41 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

Re-read what i have written, I didn't speak of "huge population" as you put it. I said the perceived weaker of the two nations in a conflict needs to only deter the stronger one to have won the battle, atleast in the perception arena.

You see the same in the latest Ukr vs Big bad Russia, you will find the same arguments made by Pakistan to its people regarding India and the Chinese CCP telling to their masses regarding the US trade war or taiwan.

But i do agree that all nations go down because that seesm to be the natural flow of things - highs and lows, the questions is will we be alive till then to see anything or just pass away believing that to be the truth?

US is not weak. If anything LGBT issues are going to make the US stronger. Coz the next batch of psychos will be from the LGBT community.

did you think LGBTs are softies? have you actually spoken to ones who are in the professional space? They will hold the torch of the US's sociopathy high. don't worry.

China is never beating the US. India is not even in the frame.

nations go down because of its internal contradictions become impossible to manage. contradictions that arise from wealth inequality, access to resources etc. Everything else is inconsequential.

as for d1ck measuring contests, pretty sure US will always pip China. If not as a single nation, then with the help of Europe. US will find a way somehow to keep China in check.

if asteroid mining becomes a reality, then things may change. Otherwise China will always be paying catch up to the US, trying to feed the beast that control the world's economic order. China is part of the capitalist system, right? Its not like USSR, that tried to find its own path and network and failed. China has already acceded to US supremacy.

China is playing by the rules set by the US. in a few years, a gay president will be threatening China. that's what these 'gender studies' creates. Not some imaginary utopia of equality that strikes at the heart of the nation. US is attracting the most psycho LGBT into its fold. the crybabies among them will probably move to India, or land up in jail or get r@ped or killed on streets. US will get to pretend like they are haven for LGBT. two birds one stone.

conservative dipshit nations like China, India have no chance to compete with the US dude.. China can't even allow outsiders into their country. US is constantly replenished with the best talent the world has on offer. Nobody gives a fcuk about movign to China. Atleast they used to consider HK, and now even that is changing.

[Raven_Rayes]

1 hour ago, telugu_fan said:

Raven_Reyes,

Please re-read what i have written, nowhere i have mentioned LGBT are soft, on the contrary if they were soft we wouldn't be seeing the gender studies being pushed. Every group based on their power/lobbying capacity atleast in the US try swaying policy decisions.

The issue is when US as a country is going whole hog on gender studies/harmone blockers for little children to satisfy one section of the society. A country taking stand on gender studies is very much different from a group advocating the same. Instead on focusing on best candidates for the job the seem to be promoting blind equality.

Its brings the case of equality of outcomes vs equality of opportunity with the US increasingly looking like it goes in the former direction. That is what I am alluding to in the post. US went for STEM and competition with erstwhile USSR to fuel its rise in tech and business (and also whole lot more reasons underlying) and it didn't go to the top by "appointing" people on equality basis without addressing the question of capability.

India being doomed or not is for Indian people to decide, not people in some db who look to be staying overseas. In India the people who shout the loudest are generally the ones in opposition and looking to come back to power. 🙂 All the current people in power were shouting the loudest when in opposition while those in opposition now are shouting the loudest, Telugu states are the best example.

so? hormone blockers for little children? are you reading too much of right wing propaganda these days? this thing is not even an issue. It is true that people who identify as LGBT has increased (I myself identify as one sort of, coz I'm bi), but I don't see how it detracts from any of the other things I can do. I can be gay, and still be a competitive asshole, no?

competitive not in pushing gender theories, but in tech. How many LGBT are in tech? plenty. especially in programming. don't worry, those LGBT will still fight for their own position in society, and not for some utopia of 'equality' that you think leftists are fighting for. Openly gay people have emerged in the conservative circles in the US. have they or not?

US is no place of decline. especially not because of LGBT issues. If anything suppressing them by raking up alarmist bs about hormone blockers for kids is the problem. US simply has a better way of tapping all available talent to put to use. Much better than China, and India - where still people cry on reservations, as if the uppercaste dumbfcuks are doing a bang up job inventing technologies left and right if not for reservations. delusional most of them.

I was shouting loud when Congress was in power too, btw. anyway it doesn't matter.

[Raven_Rayes]

49 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

But i do agree that all nations go down because that seesm to be the natural flow of things - highs and lows, the questions is will we be alive till then to see anything or just pass away believing that to be the truth?

as long as US admits a lot of immigrants (including illegal ones), it'll hold its position as number 1.

once that tap dries up, US is done.