Is USA done?

[Raven_Rayes]

1 hour ago, telugu_fan said:

when has India started on these fronts and where is the focus.

Indians focus only on crying about reservations. you'll see a million people crying on reservations for a 1000 ranks. 99% of those who do this crying are losers who wouldn't have qualified even without reservations. Indian govts even respond to these losers by instituting categories like EWS without any proper caste census. India is a joke dude.

disgusting people, uppercaste Indians. there's no way I see India succeeding in anything when it is actively locking huge populations out of its economy.

[telugu_fan]

On 1/13/2023 at 10:23 PM, Raven_Rayes said:

US is not weak. If anything LGBT issues are going to make the US stronger. Coz the next batch of psychos will be from the LGBT community.

did you think LGBTs are softies? have you actually spoken to ones who are in the professional space? They will hold the torch of the US's sociopathy high. don't worry.

China is never beating the US. India is not even in the frame.

nations go down because of its internal contradictions become impossible to manage. contradictions that arise from wealth inequality, access to resources etc. Everything else is inconsequential.

as for d1ck measuring contests, pretty sure US will always pip China. If not as a single nation, then with the help of Europe. US will find a way somehow to keep China in check.

.........

China is playing by the rules set by the US. in a few years, a gay president will be threatening China. that's what these 'gender studies' creates. Not some imaginary utopia of equality that strikes at the heart of the nation. US is attracting the most psycho LGBT into its fold. the crybabies among them will probably move to India, or land up in jail or get r@ped or killed on streets. US will get to pretend like they are haven for LGBT. two birds one stone.

................

You are all over the place with supporting the gender studies in schools (i don't have issue with gender studies per se, but they shouldn't be at school level atleast that is my personal take). you can do a lot more by teaching kids to get along well with everybody irrespective of color of skin, socio-religious-economic backgrounds or being a boy or a girl rather than splitting people as he/him, she/her, they/them at a kindergarten/middle school level.

And then you say that next psychos are going to come from gay community. Preventing psychos they could belong to any group/community) from coming to a position of power is important.

A good administrator will improve the status of most of the people, and it is important that such people come to power, rather than simply bringing people from a particular group to only check a few boxes.

[telugu_fan]

On 1/13/2023 at 10:32 PM, Raven_Rayes said:

so? hormone blockers for little children? are you reading too much of right wing propaganda these days? this thing is not even an issue. It is true that people who identify as LGBT has increased (I myself identify as one sort of, coz I'm bi), but I don't see how it detracts from any of the other things I can do. I can be gay, and still be a competitive asshole, no?

competitive not in pushing gender theories, but in tech. How many LGBT are in tech? plenty. especially in programming. don't worry, those LGBT will still fight for their own position in society, and not for some utopia of 'equality' that you think leftists are fighting for. Openly gay people have emerged in the conservative circles in the US. have they or not?

US is no place of decline. especially not because of LGBT issues. If anything suppressing them by raking up alarmist bs about hormone blockers for kids is the problem. US simply has a better way of tapping all available talent to put to use. Much better than China, and India - where still people cry on reservations, as if the uppercaste dumbfcuks are doing a bang up job inventing technologies left and right if not for reservations. delusional most of them.

I was shouting loud when Congress was in power too, btw. anyway it doesn't matter.

If you are personally a bi, then good for you to be able to swing on both sides.

However the point is that if kids are being given hormone blockers, parents should be notified as the well being of a child is parents responsibility and school washes its hands off after the student graduates and the potential long term effects are still not out in the open.

I am putting in links that are considered to be progressive/liberal and not right wing, right wing blogs will/can lead you down a rabbit hole.

The wapo link talks about students being given harmone blockers a good six months before the parents are notified.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/07/18/gender-transition-school-parent-notification/

The nurse is suspended for saying kids as early as 11 years are being given harmone blockers without notifying parents.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10665389/School-nurse-suspended-revealing-student-11-puberty-blockers.html

talks about puberty blockers and what could "potentially" be the side effects.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/health/puberty-blockers-transgender.html

 

People work in any industry belonging to different groups they identify themselves with (white, black, asian, male, female, trans, jewish, christrian, atheist etc). the people who are generally hired for their skills and that has very little to do with their identity. But when identity takes center stage you will eventually start loosing the focus of what needs to be done at work, if not immediately it will happen eventually.

That is what i am saying, a good worker can be gay, but somebody shouldn't be hired or fired just because they are gay or any other identity they go with.

Equality of outcome vs equal oppurtunity applies here for the long term.

 

[Raven_Rayes]

27 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

You are all over the place with supporting the gender studies in schools (i don't have issue with gender studies per se, but they shouldn't be at school level atleast that is my personal take)

who told you they teach gender studies at school? and what do you mean by gender studies?

teaching young kids that there can be multiple genders is just basic biology. not gender studies.

28 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

Preventing psychos they could belong to any group/community) from coming to a position of power is important.

and you make fun of me for mocking psycho Modi.

 

28 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

A good administrator will improve the status of most of the people, and it is important that such people come to power, rather than simply bringing people from a particular group to only check a few boxes.

given that LGBT are more likely to be killed on the street just for being LGBT, its fine if the govt promotes tolerance for them.

[Raven_Rayes]

30 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

The wapo link talks about students being given harmone blockers a good six months before the parents are notified.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/07/18/gender-transition-school-parent-notification/

what if the parents are abusive assholes that would assault the kid if the kid opened up to them? you think children are not abused, just because child services is just one call away?

30 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

The nurse is suspended for saying kids as early as 11 years are being given harmone blockers without notifying parents.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10665389/School-nurse-suspended-revealing-student-11-puberty-blockers.html

so would a nurse that makes bs claims about covid vaccines would be too. again parents are not owners of the kids. If the kids feel like taking them improves their personal well being, and the risks and benefits are weighed with a doctor and child psychologist, I don't see what the problem is.

the parents don't come into the picture. they lost their right the minute the child trusted the system over them. children with loving parents don't do that.

30 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

talks about puberty blockers and what could "potentially" be the side effects.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/health/puberty-blockers-transgender.html

what about the potential side effects of people realising in their 20s and 30s, that they are stuck in the body of the wrong gender? mostly suicide. coz you know how society treats someone who's in the process of transitioning into a different gender?

30 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

That is what i am saying, a good worker can be gay, but somebody shouldn't be hired or fired just because they are gay or any other identity they go with.

such 'woke' hires are no different from hires based on same nationality, race, or because you just liked someone's smile. what makes you think there's merit involved in every hire. humans are not machines. Even the Chinese are not.

[Raven_Rayes]

14 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

People work in any industry belonging to different groups they identify themselves with (white, black, asian, male, female, trans, jewish, christrian, atheist etc). the people who are generally hired for their skills and that has very little to do with their identity. But when identity takes center stage you will eventually start loosing the focus of what needs to be done at work, if not immediately it will happen eventually.

then I'll wfh, no problem. or find jobs where wfh is available.

you are just basing all your arguments on your prejudice that LGBT people have no skills, or have less skills compared to the avg cis person. it means you've not met many lgbt people.

 

[telugu_fan]

On 1/16/2023 at 10:03 PM, Raven_Rayes said:

who told you they teach gender studies at school? and what do you mean by gender studies?

teaching young kids that there can be multiple genders is just basic biology. not gender studies.

and you make fun of me for mocking psycho Modi.

 

given that LGBT are more likely to be killed on the street just for being LGBT, its fine if the govt promotes tolerance for them.

As i said before, I have no issue regarding gender studies, just where its taught and at what age, just to quote another example you don't teach sex education for grade schoolers and kindergarten going kids even though its biology and most of them are going to use it in their life later on. kids attending kindergarten or grade school atleast should be taught to get well with everyone rather than saying this is a boy-he him, girl-she/her, lgbtq -them/they. Again its the age at which you are taught is what i am focusing on.

Calling people psychos don't make them so, you need to give strong examples to back that up and follow on with the same set of standards for everyone else. People criticizing Modi are called out (atleast most of the ones i have seen) because they only do it to him and are silent on the rest of politicans. People ask for the same standards for all, absence of which visceral reactions are brought out and this goes for the other side as well, not just Modi.

I haven't seen anybody being killed for being third gender in India, some people might not like to interact with them while some think they bring good luck with what ever blessings they give, but killed i haven't seen, can't say the same about the US or kattar islamic countries where the book rules the roost. But if the govt is truly trying to promote tolerance for them then they have to engage with communities more, not bring blanket bans and half baked ideas without engagement with people. You will not change them in one go but you will keep chipping away at their support base eventually.

[Raven_Rayes]

13 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

As i said before, I have no issue regarding gender studies, just where its taught and at what age, just to quote another example you don't teach sex education for grade schoolers and kindergarten going kids even though its biology and most of them are going to use it in their life later on. kids attending kindergarten or grade school atleast should be taught to get well with everyone rather than saying this is a boy-he him, girl-she/her, lgbtq -them/they. Again its the age at which you are taught is what i am focusing on.

teaching kids that there are more than two genders is just basic biology. not Gender Studies.

 

13 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

Calling people psychos don't make them so, you need to give strong examples to back that up and follow on with the same set of standards for everyone else. People criticizing Modi are called out (atleast most of the ones i have seen) because they only do it to him and are silent on the rest of politicans. People ask for the same standards for all, absence of which visceral reactions are brought out and this goes for the other side as well, not just Modi.

I'm obviously using the word 'psycho' loosely here.. To counter your claim that LGBT people will be soft. I meant that they will be as ruthless and efficient as anyone in pushing the capitalist system forward. They will fail ofcourse, just like any cis powermonger will. but not for lack of trying.

13 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

I haven't seen anybody being killed for being third gender in India, some people might not like to interact with them while some think they bring good luck with what ever blessings they give, but killed i haven't seen, can't say the same about the US or kattar islamic countries where the book rules the roost. But if the govt is truly trying to promote tolerance for them then they have to engage with communities more, not bring blanket bans and half baked ideas without engagement with people. You will not change them in one go but you will keep chipping away at their support base eventually.

I thought the topic was USA. India still hasn't achieved the wealth and cultural maturity of the western nations. especially the US.

you say you want govt to reach out more, and then think such outreach will make USA soft compared to China, who simply ban lgbt and sweep the entire issue under the rug and pretend like it doesn't exist.

which do you want the govt to do? please pick one.

 

 

[telugu_fan]

On 1/16/2023 at 10:13 PM, Raven_Rayes said:

what if the parents are abusive assholes that would assault the kid if the kid opened up to them? you think children are not abused, just because child services is just one call away?

so would a nurse that makes bs claims about covid vaccines would be too. again parents are not owners of the kids. If the kids feel like taking them improves their personal well being, and the risks and benefits are weighed with a doctor and child psychologist, I don't see what the problem is.

the parents don't come into the picture. they lost their right the minute the child trusted the system over them. children with loving parents don't do that.

what about the potential side effects of people realising in their 20s and 30s, that they are stuck in the body of the wrong gender? mostly suicide. coz you know how society treats someone who's in the process of transitioning into a different gender?

such 'woke' hires are no different from hires based on same nationality, race, or because you just liked someone's smile. what makes you think there's merit involved in every hire. humans are not machines. Even the Chinese are not.

If parents abuse the kids then you call child services, not give hormone blockers without knowledge of the parents, two wrongs don't make things right.

Parents are responsible for their kids well being. If you leave kids to do what they want they will eat chocolates all day and watch Ipad or TV and won't go about doing homeworks, parents nudge/push/punish/reward kids to do what they think is right and will help kids have a better future, not leave them as is and say something about ownership and rights.

You think a kid who is not even 18-20 years always know better than others and have thought about all possibilities. Again the issue is not about using medicines/hormone blockers but letting the parents know.

Taking blockers also has long term side effects regarding bone strength and fertility and hormone imbalance which is a bigger issue in itself. people in their 20's or 30's have the option to undergo treatments rather than trying to take medication without any parental supervision or advise.

[Raven_Rayes]

Just now, telugu_fan said:

If parents abuse the kids then you call child services, not give hormone blockers without knowledge of the parents, two wrongs don't make things right.

Parents are responsible for their kids well being. If you leave kids to do what they want they will eat chocolates all day and watch Ipad or TV and won't go about doing homeworks, parents nudge/push/punish/reward kids to do what they think is right and will help kids have a better future, not leave them as is and say something about ownership and rights.

You think a kid who is not even 18-20 years always know better than others and have thought about all possibilities. Again the issue is not about using medicines/hormone blockers but letting the parents know.

Taking blockers also has long term side effects regarding bone strength and fertility and hormone imbalance which is a bigger issue in itself. people in their 20's or 30's have the option to undergo treatments rather than trying to take medication without any parental supervision or advise.

If the parents are abusive assholes, why should the kid suffer in a foster home while the kid is being administered hormone blockers, that it will be administered anyway, since the kid will be taken away from the parents.

giving a kid hormone blockers is not like giving candy to them. There will be a doctor working with the child, and pysochologist that assesses if the kid needs it. They don't just give a child blockers because the child asks for it.

yeah taking hormone blockers has some risks associated with it. but not taking them, and deciding to transition in late 20s has even worse side effects. like suicidal tendencies. Its not up to you or the parents to make the decision for the child. Its upto the child to make that decision, with guidance from experts. After all, its just a hormone blocker, and if it improves the child's quality of life, why deny it?

[telugu_fan]

On 1/16/2023 at 10:19 PM, Raven_Rayes said:

then I'll wfh, no problem. or find jobs where wfh is available.

you are just basing all your arguments on your prejudice that LGBT people have no skills, or have less skills compared to the avg cis person. it means you've not met many lgbt people.

 

I am basing my argument that people have skills, they can be straight or lgbtq, not my problem or issue as long as they get the job done. I have seen LGBTQ in my place of work and they are just as normal/efficient as any other in their work.

They were probably hired for the work they do (i am only guessing as i didn't hire them 🙂 ), but if i were to hire somebody then i would only look at their skills and not overtly belonging to a community.

[Raven_Rayes]

5 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

Again the issue is not about using medicines/hormone blockers but letting the parents know.

Its upto the parents to be close to their kids well being. they can try to talk to their kids with an open mind and try and understand where they come from. I bet majority parents fail at that.

Its fine if blockers are administered behind parent's backs.

[Raven_Rayes]

Just now, telugu_fan said:

I am basing my argument that people have skills, they can be straight or lgbtq, not my problem or issue as long as they get the job done. I have seen LGBTQ in my place of work and they are just as normal/efficient as any other in their work.

They were probably hired for the work they do (i am only guessing as i didn't hire them 🙂 ), but if i were to hire somebody then i would only look at their skills and not overtly belonging to a community.

fine. no one forced you to hire lgbt person.

I will hire lgbt person if they have the skill to do a job, over a normal person with similar skillset.

 

[telugu_fan]

14 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

teaching kids that there are more than two genders is just basic biology. not Gender Studies.

 

I'm obviously using the word 'psycho' loosely here.. To counter your claim that LGBT people will be soft. I meant that they will be as ruthless and efficient as anyone in pushing the capitalist system forward. They will fail ofcourse, just like any cis powermonger will. but not for lack of trying.

I thought the topic was USA. India still hasn't achieved the wealth and cultural maturity of the western nations. especially the US.

you say you want govt to reach out more, and then think such outreach will make USA soft compared to China, who simply ban lgbt and sweep the entire issue under the rug and pretend like it doesn't exist.

which do you want the govt to do? please pick one.

 

 

I think a kid aged 4-7 years needn't concern themselves with the number of genders. they are learning things with confusing things like pnk is for girls and blue is for boys with preconditioned programming, don't need more as of now. mabe 10 year leter they can start exploring about it when thye have some ideas of attraction and sexuality.

I said the govt focusing on equality of outcomes will make it soft. When i said the govt should engage it should be with parents, special interest groups (like churches or congregations that generally oppose lgbtq) and communities as a whole, then the teaching will come from home as any basic not force gender studies in schools for age inappropriate kids.

Gender studies have their place and time and not in kids schools maybe the end of middle or beginning of high school 

[Raven_Rayes]

@telugu_fan dude, may be you've not noticed.. puberty blockers have been used in India decades earlier for increasing height in short kids.

my aunt, a doc, used it for her kids .

when it is to give time to kids to consider which gender they are comfortable with, it suddenly becomes a huge issue that can even pull down national strength is it?

like I said, nations are outdated. They are going down. neither dumb strongmen like Modi, nor future psycho transgender power mongers can save any nation. All nations will break purely due to their internal contradictions. US, India, China.. no exceptions.

Gender studies is just storm in a teacup.