Understanding Indian History with Advocate J. Sai Deepak

[pakeer_saab]

2 hours ago, JavaBava said:

Nidra lechina daggaranunchi arugula meeda kurchuni evadu free money estada bank accounts lo ani wait chesta unte sagam paiga desam em peekadaniki aa self confidence janalaki? 

so what you are saying is you are in the same economic status as were your grand father was

there has been no development in India in the last 10 yrs?? or the development stopped post 2014??

[Raven_Rayes]

26 minutes ago, galiraju said:

Man! folks are rigid in this thread. So, apparently no side bother to listen to facts. I mean, I do not fault you guys, with the amount of information we have it is impossible to separate facts from the noise. Also, most of us listen/see/read something that fits our template, I guess. Just saying! 

what facts? Its not that hard to separate facts from noise.

first you have to lay out the facts, and then it can be examined if they are indeed facts or bs.

I don't think its good use of my time to spend 2hrs watching a video, where a speaker bases is claims on the pretext that 'nation' or 'culture' is supreme. I think most people's lived experience says that nation is just a construct that serves a purpose and can/will be discarded if it doesn't serve it.

as far as I'm concerned, everything the guy says is noise, and I didn't even listen to single sec of that video. you can try and expand on a few things he said, that you think are solid facts, and lets see if they are in fact facts or noise.

see dude, I agree having an open mind is a good thing. But having an open mind about whether 'nazism is a good ideology' is pure sociopathy. And Sanghi crap comes pretty close to nazism, except lacking the balls part.

[Raven_Rayes]

5 hours ago, RSUCHOU said:

He is a Tambram settled in Hyderabad anna. Telugu tejam kadhu.

then not surprised. TamBrams are among the most disgusting sanghis on the planet. full of unfiltered hate for everything that challenges their supremacy.

[Raven_Rayes]

41 minutes ago, galiraju said:

I don't know if  you watched the video. He didn't talk about anything that is related to "meesalu melesudu.'' He was talking about the distortion of Indian history, origins of Jihad in India, Balakot incidents among other things. According to the video, there is no mention of Pre-Mughal India. However, I did not read the book. I ordered a copy.   

yes. We should speak more about Maratha atrocities in Bengal and TN. And Chola atrocities on the chalukyas. several more to name.

Did he mention what is so special about the 'Hindu civilization' that one must only examine the history of Jihad in India, without examining the rise of Hindu fundamentalism in parallel along with it?

the guy is a joke. There's a reason he's spilling out his pearls of wisdom on right wing circles, where a lot of bozos lap up the bs he's serving. In an academic debate, this guy will be crushed by an undergraduate in history probably. waste of time.

 

[Raven_Rayes]

If he has that many citations and references, he should publish in academic journals, and open up his facts for serious investigation. lmao.

instead of giving youtube interviews and writing books, that no one in the field would even read..

 

[Raven_Rayes]

never trust anyone who claims that he has stumbled on the truth. In any field. its almost always to sell books, or in service of an ideology.

you should know. you are a scientist or something no?

India is not a special civilization. and there's no need to examine its history from the exclusive lens of Hindu society/culture.

[JavaBava]

1 hour ago, pakeer_saab said:

so what you are saying is you are in the same economic status as were your grand father was

there has been no development in India in the last 10 yrs?? or the development stopped post 2014??

Typical argument again. Why do people rush to put you in some bucket without reading or understanding what is said? Does it make easy to nullify the validity of a statement than actually trying to understand it?
 

Did i say anything about 2014 before or after. That was a generic statement that I think is needed for development of any nation. If you are really happy with where India is today and whatever is done from our grandfather's generation to now is good enough, then why all the discussion. We are already a great developed nation then. 

[telugu_fan]

9 hours ago, Raven_Rayes said:

If he has that many citations and references, he should publish in academic journals, and open up his facts for serious investigation. lmao.

instead of giving youtube interviews and writing books, that no one in the field would even read..

 

can you name any academic journals that publish history and verify the claims. His book is open for critiques and serious investigation, can't do anything if the established historians don't want to challenge him.

He is not making fantastical claims of flying horses and avatars, he is just talking about history and only the glorification of mughals. There are many kingdoms that existed prior to mughals and have  existed since then.

He is talking about pushing a partisan narrative for political votes, if it pleases you he doesn't praise BJP nor minces any words when it comes to BJP not taking care of hindu causes according to him.

[Raven_Rayes]

4 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

can you name any academic journals that publish history and verify the claims. His book is open for critiques and serious investigation, can't do anything if the established historians don't want to challenge him.

 

that's the thing brother. if serious historians don't want to challenge him, that means his work is sh1t.

6 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

He is not making fantastical claims of flying horses and avatars, he is just talking about history and only the glorification of mughals. There are many kingdoms that existed prior to mughals and have  existed since then.

historians dont care whether mughals are glorified or not. only ideologues like that guy do.

6 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

He is talking about pushing a partisan narrative for political votes, if it pleases you he doesn't praise BJP nor minces any words when it comes to BJP not taking care of hindu causes according to him.

that he's worried about 'Hindu' causes itself means he's not a serious historian to begin with. He's just trying to cash in on the hindutva mood in the country. that's all.

 

[Raven_Rayes]

9 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

He is not making fantastical claims of flying horses and avatars, he is just talking about history and only the glorification of mughals. There are many kingdoms that existed prior to mughals and have  existed since then.

like for eg that notorious 'historian' on twitter who's stanning Aurangazeb.. what's her name, I forgot.. aubrey something.

atleast she has some credentials, even though she goes over the top defending Aurangazeb out of hatred for hindutva groups.

this guy doesn't even have that level of credibility. he's a nobody outside of sanghi circles.

there's a scientific method  for history too. so impressing lay audience with politically loaded statements about muslims/hindus can only help him become some bigoted politician. not a historian.

[telugu_fan]

6 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

that's the thing brother. if serious historians don't want to challenge him, that means his work is sh1t.

historians dont care whether mughals are glorified or not. only ideologues like that guy do.

that he's worried about 'Hindu' causes itself means he's not a serious historian to begin with. He's just trying to cash in on the hindutva mood in the country. that's all.

 

I can turn around and say that people being called "serious historians" are just gas bags who have so far hacked it with connections and will not stand scrutiny of their own work. Debating with well spoken and researched people will expose them for the most part.

There are still a few serious historians who will stand scrutiny, but most of them are just that gas bags as evidenced by their testimony in Allahabad highcourt regarding the Ram Mandir case.

"True historians" care about history and take care to try and find out about history as much as they can, not just idolize one dynasty while whitewashing their crimes. Every dynasty rises by the sword and has baggage both good and bad, but to hide atrocities and only highlight their achievements is not what "true historians" do.

You would do well to try and find out who he is, he has graduated from IIT and then turned law practitioner in Delhi High court and Supreme court, so he is not some guy off the streets trying to cash in on the hindutva craze.

[telugu_fan]

15 minutes ago, Raven_Rayes said:

like for eg that notorious 'historian' on twitter who's stanning Aurangazeb.. what's her name, I forgot.. aubrey something.

atleast she has some credentials, even though she goes over the top defending Aurangazeb out of hatred for hindutva groups.

this guy doesn't even have that level of credibility. he's a nobody outside of sanghi circles.

there's a scientific method  for history too. so impressing lay audience with politically loaded statements about muslims/hindus can only help him become some bigoted politician. not a historian.

Its Audrey Truchke, Can you post her credentials and what rigorous checks have her works stood when she wrote her tripe glorifying Aurangazeb.

She is a hindu hater who masks it with woman standing and challenging hindutva (whatever that means). She claims she has knowledge of Sanskrit, but uses translations of others to make her point.

her husband worked for organizations affiliated with ISI (the paks intelligence agency) and her father inlaw wasa missionary who had his visa revoked for flouting conversion rules.

So why should i take her seriously when she is a biased character. Not that anything she writes have to be untrue, but again what sort of rigouros checks and balances have her works endured.

This from a person who at one point in time was busy painting targets on people in twitter, when the tables turned she pleaded misogyny, hatred and targetted harrasment which she herself was doing earlier.

[Raven_Rayes]

5 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

Its Audrey Truchke, Can you post her credentials and what rigorous checks have her works stood when she wrote her tripe glorifying Aurangazeb.

She is a hindu hater who masks it with woman standing and challenging hindutva (whatever that means). She claims she has knowledge of Sanskrit, but uses translations of others to make her point.

her husband worked for organizations affiliated with ISI (the paks intelligence agency) and her father inlaw wasa missionary who had his visa revoked for flouting conversion rules.

So why should i take her seriously when she is a biased character. Not that anything she writes have to be untrue, but again what sort of rigouros checks and balances have her works endured.

This from a person who at one point in time was busy painting targets on people in twitter, when the tables turned she pleaded misogyny, hatred and targetted harrasment which she herself was doing earlier.

I didn't ask you to take her seriuosly. I just said that this guy has even less credibility compared to her. she's a history professor of a leading university, no?

who's this guy? some bored chartered accountant, or lawyer with too much time in his hands.

[Raven_Rayes]

19 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

I can turn around and say that people being called "serious historians" are just gas bags who have so far hacked it with connections and will not stand scrutiny of their own work. Debating with well spoken and researched people will expose them for the most part.

you can say whatever you want. but 'well spoken' and 'well researched' are just empty claims that mean nothing. Knowledge is gained by sharing methods and data, not by making bombastic claims of being sole arbiter of truth. whether its Audrey or anyone else will be consigned to dustbin if they keep centering the discussion around themselves.

20 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

There are still a few serious historians who will stand scrutiny, but most of them are just that gas bags as evidenced by their testimony in Allahabad highcourt regarding the Ram Mandir case.

nice joke. was ASI claim that Ram Mandir lay below the destroyed mosque even published in a reputed magazine? its just bs. historians don't make claims like that. that's the nature of politicians

22 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

You would do well to try and find out who he is, he has graduated from IIT and then turned law practitioner in Delhi High court and Supreme court, so he is not some guy off the streets trying to cash in on the hindutva craze.

IIT doesn't impress me. sorrrry. unless the guy came up with a fusion engine or something. Its clear he sucked at science, and took up the easy way to make money out of gullible people by pushing politcally motivated crap that sells.

[Raven_Rayes]

a lot of IIT types have no respect for humanities, and refuse to apply the same principles that they applied in Science in the study of Humanities. They treat history like its some story the grandmom reads to you at bedtime. @telugu_fan