First time, value of LIC holding in Adani companies drops below purchase price

[dasari4kntr]

4 minutes ago, telugu_fan said:

I am fully in agreement with your third point and highlighted, but LIC supposedly invests 10 lakh crores in equity and about 30 lakh crores in bonds market.

In the equity market LIC invests in many companies (supposedly close to 200 companies) - includes Reliance which also has a lot of debt, TCS, and a whole of PSU (Public Sector Undertaking). How many times have you heard of LIC investments so far? Most of the PSU's are running in supposedly losses. Has anyone questioned that?

Not that people shouldn't question LIC investments in Adani. @pakeer_saab mentioned the crux of the matter above.

If nothing comes out of this Adani saga then they will bury it just like Pegasus, Meta stories, whatapp snooping and all the others without any apology.

LIC choice of investments suppose to be firm choice…shouldn’t be a political pressure…firms hire investment managers for those investment decisions…మద్యలో పొలిటీషియన్స్ వేళ్ళు పెట్యకుండా ఉంటే చాలు…

are you 100% confident there is no political pressure involved…? after seeing the coal import tax remove after adani got license in Australia coal mines…and why SEBI is not doing investigating on shell companies…?

ఏదైనా ఒకటి ప్రశ్నించినప్పుడు…మీరు అప్పుడేంచేస్తున్నారు..? అప్పుడెందుకు అడగలేదు? మీకు దేశభక్తి ఉందా..? లాంటి సమాధానాలు వళ్ళ తేలేది ఏంటంటే మీరు (అంటే మీరు కాదు..అలాంటి సమాదానం ఇచ్చేవాళ్ళు) ఇప్పుడు జరిగేది తప్పు అని ఒప్పుకోకుండా ఒప్పుకున్నట్టే…

 

[dewarist]

1 hour ago, telugu_fan said:

i got you bhayya, even i am trying to stop writing so much essays, if i could learn to put gifs and pics maybe they will come down.

mee intellect mundu maa random gifs enta cheppandi..

[dewarist]

1 hour ago, pakeer_saab said:

inta due diligence 2014 mundu unte chaala bagundedi, aa time lo barmaid sanka nakadame saripoindi, asking now about LIC investments on daily basis as if they love the nation 

Same routine script

[dewarist]

2 hours ago, 8pm said:

venakala nuvvena 

[hunkyfunky2]

1 hour ago, telugu_fan said:

I am fully in agreement with your third point and highlighted, but LIC supposedly invests 10 lakh crores in equity and about 30 lakh crores in bonds market.

In the equity market LIC invests in many companies (supposedly close to 200 companies) - includes Reliance which also has a lot of debt, TCS, and a whole of PSU (Public Sector Undertaking). How many times have you heard of LIC investments so far? Most of the PSU's are running in supposedly losses. Has anyone questioned that?

Not that people shouldn't question LIC investments in Adani. @pakeer_saab mentioned the crux of the matter above.

If nothing comes out of this Adani saga then they will bury it just like Pegasus, Meta stories, whatapp snooping and all the others without any apology.

Diff is that only lic and SBI invested and all the mutual funds avoided it like plague.

So, it's only few retail investors who invested. But that's not the point.

They just inflated the stock so that they can use the collateral for getting loans.

[telugu_fan]

1 hour ago, hunkyfunky2 said:

Diff is that only lic and SBI invested and all the mutual funds avoided it like plague.

So, it's only few retail investors who invested. But that's not the point.

They just inflated the stock so that they can use the collateral for getting loans.

 

I have a couple of questions on the last highlighted point if anyone has knowledge of indian stock markets.

1. Every company tries to get maximum valuation, that besides being the point, if according to hindenburg report more than 75% is owned by adani subsidiaries through shell offshore accounts, and very little mutual funds and retail investors, then how did the share value loose 50-60% of it value currently? Obviously adani held shell companies will not be selling their stocks further to cause further fall in stock price.

2. there is a report by Aswath Damodaran who explicitly says that for a company valuation to grow there has to be a constant buying and selling which was "missing" in the case of Adani. So how did his inflation of stock takes place.

https://aswathdamodaran.blogspot.com/2023/02/control-and-complexity-deconstructing.html

 

[telugu_fan]

2 hours ago, dasari4kntr said:

LIC choice of investments suppose to be firm choice…shouldn’t be a political pressure…firms hire investment managers for those investment decisions…మద్యలో పొలిటీషియన్స్ వేళ్ళు పెట్యకుండా ఉంటే చాలు…

are you 100% confident there is no political pressure involved…? after seeing the coal import tax remove after adani got license in Australia coal mines…and why SEBI is not doing investigating on shell companies…?

ఏదైనా ఒకటి ప్రశ్నించినప్పుడు…మీరు అప్పుడేంచేస్తున్నారు..? అప్పుడెందుకు అడగలేదు? మీకు దేశభక్తి ఉందా..? లాంటి సమాధానాలు వళ్ళ తేలేది ఏంటంటే మీరు (అంటే మీరు కాదు..అలాంటి సమాదానం ఇచ్చేవాళ్ళు) ఇప్పుడు జరిగేది తప్పు అని ఒప్పుకోకుండా ఒప్పుకున్నట్టే…

 

i don't know if politics was involved in investing in Adani, do the people alleging the same gave any proofs of their allegations. banks make money by lending out to businesses and SBI and LIC clarified that their money in Adani is backed by assests such as ports and airports and not stock values. they have invested in other companies like reliance and TCS and host of other companies that have debt or running in losses as well.

Adani got his coal block in Australia in 2010 and has started the work on it in 2019 after getting whatever permissions it has looked like and the first shipment of coal was in 2021. Modi wasn't the PM of the country when Adani acquired the carmichael mine. not withstanding the stupid whatapp forwards that have come up recently where the old person is alleging that Adani has caused change of govt in Australia and has singlehadedly destroyed great barrier reef and some such outlandish claims, here is the link from guardian which outlines queensland got proposal to get more jobs by auctioning coal blocks.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jan/09/after-adani-whatever-happened-to-queenslands-galilee-basin-coal-boom

the coal tax that you quote was removed after India Australia free trade agreement that concluded in Dec 2022 and is backed by industry that is requesting its import into the country for iron and steel industry and reducing the cost associated with it. We can say Tata's or Jindal who have nice iron and steel mills are direct one benefiting as well and not just Adani also no? Adani doesn't get anything from a tax, as the entity importing it will pay it which in this case are the iron and steel companies and not Adani specifically.

https://gmk.center/en/news/india-demands-the-complete-abolition-of-the-import-duty-on-coking-coal/

https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/2393447-indiaaustralia-fta-exempts-coking-coal-import-duty

Sebi is going to investigate, the case is in Supreme court and they are stil deciding how they will consitute a panel or commission or whatever. But it will work under the aegis of SEBI only.

[telugu_fan]

2 hours ago, dasari4kntr said:

ఏదైనా ఒకటి ప్రశ్నించినప్పుడు…మీరు అప్పుడేంచేస్తున్నారు..? అప్పుడెందుకు అడగలేదు? మీకు దేశభక్తి ఉందా..? లాంటి సమాధానాలు వళ్ళ తేలేది ఏంటంటే మీరు (అంటే మీరు కాదు..అలాంటి సమాదానం ఇచ్చేవాళ్ళు) ఇప్పుడు జరిగేది తప్పు అని ఒప్పుకోకుండా ఒప్పుకున్నట్టే…

 

Ofcourse, just because something was not questioned in the past doesn't mean it can or cannot be questioned now. you should always do the right thing.

But the question of NPA was not long before issue, its quite fresh and they are still trying to fix it, have you seen any kind of discussion on the same by the political parties or the newpapers on the lakhs of NPA's and daily commentary on who ate how much money? Hence the people are now asking why the questions are raised when all these years nothing came out from the same journalists.

[hunkyfunky2]

7 hours ago, telugu_fan said:

I have a couple of questions on the last highlighted point if anyone has knowledge of indian stock markets.

1. Every company tries to get maximum valuation, that besides being the point, if according to hindenburg report more than 75% is owned by adani subsidiaries through shell offshore accounts, and very little mutual funds and retail investors, then how did the share value loose 50-60% of it value currently? Obviously adani held shell companies will not be selling their stocks further to cause further fall in stock price.

2. there is a report by Aswath Damodaran who explicitly says that for a company valuation to grow there has to be a constant buying and selling which was "missing" in the case of Adani. So how did his inflation of stock takes place.

https://aswathdamodaran.blogspot.com/2023/02/control-and-complexity-deconstructing.html

 

1. Neither insiders nor LIC/SBI sold the shares recently. Imp. Point is they didn't buy also. So, only remaining retailers were only selling so it's easy to drop . Even for normal flagship stock like apple, mutual funds constant buying is what keeps the price from falling so drastically. Apple like stock is in so many mutual funds. So, only sellers and no buyers. 

2. That's systematic manipulation - very little float and the insiders kept buying the stock. 

 

[pakeer_saab]

8 hours ago, dewarist said:

Same routine script

same needi koda anthe ga.. window crying

[dewarist]

56 minutes ago, pakeer_saab said:

same needi koda anthe ga.. window crying

Next step in Workflow has run successfully. 

 

[dasari4kntr]

10 hours ago, telugu_fan said:

Ofcourse, just because something was not questioned in the past doesn't mean it can or cannot be questioned now. you should always do the right thing.

But the question of NPA was not long before issue, its quite fresh and they are still trying to fix it, have you seen any kind of discussion on the same by the political parties or the newpapers on the lakhs of NPA's and daily commentary on who ate how much money? Hence the people are now asking why the questions are raised when all these years nothing came out from the same journalists.

 

10 hours ago, telugu_fan said:

i don't know if politics was involved in investing in Adani, do the people alleging the same gave any proofs of their allegations. banks make money by lending out to businesses and SBI and LIC clarified that their money in Adani is backed by assests such as ports and airports and not stock values. they have invested in other companies like reliance and TCS and host of other companies that have debt or running in losses as well.

Adani got his coal block in Australia in 2010 and has started the work on it in 2019 after getting whatever permissions it has looked like and the first shipment of coal was in 2021. Modi wasn't the PM of the country when Adani acquired the carmichael mine. not withstanding the stupid whatapp forwards that have come up recently where the old person is alleging that Adani has caused change of govt in Australia and has singlehadedly destroyed great barrier reef and some such outlandish claims, here is the link from guardian which outlines queensland got proposal to get more jobs by auctioning coal blocks.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jan/09/after-adani-whatever-happened-to-queenslands-galilee-basin-coal-boom

the coal tax that you quote was removed after India Australia free trade agreement that concluded in Dec 2022 and is backed by industry that is requesting its import into the country for iron and steel industry and reducing the cost associated with it. We can say Tata's or Jindal who have nice iron and steel mills are direct one benefiting as well and not just Adani also no? Adani doesn't get anything from a tax, as the entity importing it will pay it which in this case are the iron and steel companies and not Adani specifically.

https://gmk.center/en/news/india-demands-the-complete-abolition-of-the-import-duty-on-coking-coal/

https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/2393447-indiaaustralia-fta-exempts-coking-coal-import-duty

Sebi is going to investigate, the case is in Supreme court and they are stil deciding how they will consitute a panel or commission or whatever. But it will work under the aegis of SEBI only.

NPA was corrupt and dead now...thats why people choose NDA in 2014...

if any one questioning NDA...the answer shouldn't be NPA...then whats the difference..between NDA and NPA..?

NDA ni question chesina prati vaadu congress vaadu kaadhu..

 

coming back to australia mining issue...that free trade didnt mention anything about coal exports..

The Australia-India Economic Cooperation and Trade Agreement (ECTA) is a trade deal between Australia and India that was signed in June 2020 and entered into force on December 29, 2022. The agreement aims to deepen economic ties between the two countries by reducing tariffs on a wide range of goods and services, promoting investment, and facilitating greater regulatory cooperation.

Under the agreement, Australia will eliminate tariffs on 100% of its current exports to India, including on resources, energy, and agriculture. India will reduce tariffs on 90% of its current exports to Australia, including on textiles, automotive parts, and pharmaceuticals. The agreement also includes provisions to support small and medium-sized enterprises and enhance cooperation in areas such as intellectual property and e-commerce.

The ECTA is expected to boost bilateral trade and investment between Australia and India, which are already important economic partners. The agreement is also seen as a significant step towards deeper economic integration in the Indo-Pacific region and a demonstration of the importance of free and open trade in promoting growth and prosperity.

 

there are timelines matching... by the time adani is ready with coal production in australia..india is facing heavey coal shortage (miss management)...and Govt of india removed the tax on imports...and adani got 8k crores deal from NTPC...CIL, NTPC are 4 decades of state owned organizations...never had this coal shortage issues...until adani is ready in the market...but one good thing they said they will import from indonesia not from australia..but not sure where indonesia got that coal from...another new thing 5 days back news...is india is passing emergency law to maximize the overseas imports... which is still favour for adani...

things are moving this much fast in only in adani case for his advantage..

i am not representative of other organizations like reliance or tata..etc..but any organization has some organic growth..like few years of ups and downs...but in adani case...his growth is pretty slope...things move to all his advantage...thats what i am questioning...

still i am repeating one more time...

if any one questing BJP..why dont you ask congress is not valid answer...similary...if anyone is asking adani group...why dont you ask reliance and tata is also...not valid...

this thread is all but LIC loss...initially you said...there is no loss..later questioning of credibility of that news article...later again questioning the credibility of reliance and tata and NPA...where they are nothing todo with the main topic of ADANI and LIC loss...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[telugu_fan]

3 hours ago, dasari4kntr said:

 

If any one questing BJP..why dont you ask congress is not valid answer...similary...if anyone is asking adani group...why dont you ask reliance and tata is also...not valid...

this thread is all but LIC loss...initially you said...there is no loss..later questioning of credibility of that news article...later again questioning the credibility of reliance and tata and NPA...where they are nothing todo with the main topic of ADANI and LIC loss...

 

Bhayya, Can you show me a line where i said LIC hasn't had a loss in this thread. I said the initial post of Jack Seal doesn't show the cost taken to acquire the said Adani shares and also mentioned that the post by truth_holds in the first page shows the same in a much better way.

I am questioning the news article because the news article put in a picture that doesn't show the cost of acquisition of adani shares when all it would have taken another column.

And yes I am questioning the intent of the said news articles that are appearing now which neither tell that adani acquired his Mundra SEZ lands during Congress time or acquired Carmicheal mine during congress mine but insist that his rise is only due to BJP and Modi govt.

Where have i questioned the credibility of Reliance and Tata's, I have said LIC invested in Reliance which also has very heavy debt (something people are saying about Adani also) and that is to point out that LIC invests in a lot of companies and not just adani and ambani that people keep shouting.

Companies go up and down, Adani would have gone down also in the future, Adar Poonawala with covid demand would have made some money and become even more rich recently, he will not feature after a few years. If you were to use last year as some pinnacle then you will be mistaken.

Mittals who do iron and steel business and Mistrys who do real estate and building also come and go in the rich list based on their profiles and their contracts and geo political issues and demand for the underlying materials they sell - iron and steel exports or real estate ventures in dubai and elsewhere).

Adani atleast is similar when his business is still taking off. Sure he has/had govt support. Every big mover and shaker will have govt support. TCS, Wipro, Infosys, Reliance, Mahindra, Tata's, Birlas, Godrejs, Ella's all will have govt support based on the long term vision and requirements.

Simply attributing it to only crony capitalism that too without proofs is useless. Newpapers and Channels should show proof about their claims rather than run insinuations that somebody became rich only because he is close to govt.

[telugu_fan]

5 hours ago, dasari4kntr said:

 

coming back to australia mining issue...that free trade didnt mention anything about coal exports..

The Australia-India Economic Cooperation and Trade Agreement (ECTA) is a trade deal between Australia and India that was signed in June 2020 and entered into force on December 29, 2022. The agreement aims to deepen economic ties between the two countries by reducing tariffs on a wide range of goods and services, promoting investment, and facilitating greater regulatory cooperation.

Under the agreement, Australia will eliminate tariffs on 100% of its current exports to India, including on resources, energy, and agriculture. India will reduce tariffs on 90% of its current exports to Australia, including on textiles, automotive parts, and pharmaceuticals. The agreement also includes provisions to support small and medium-sized enterprises and enhance cooperation in areas such as intellectual property and e-commerce.

The ECTA is expected to boost bilateral trade and investment between Australia and India, which are already important economic partners. The agreement is also seen as a significant step towards deeper economic integration in the Indo-Pacific region and a demonstration of the importance of free and open trade in promoting growth and prosperity.

 

Bhayya, I don't know where you got the above data from. Maybe the link from which you have taken this doesn't have full info.

I am directly quoting from the official govt press release after the FTA agreement with Australia.

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1889525

from the above link there is this paragraph

 

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90% of Australian exports by value to get zero duty access to Indian market

India is offering zero duty access to 90% value of products from Australia (including coal). Zero duty on 85.3 % value of products will be offered immediately while zero duty on 3.67 % value of products will be offered progressively over 3, 5, 7 and 10 years. India has offered concessions on Tariff lines of export interest to Australia like Coking coal and Thermal coal, Wines, Agricultural products – 7 of them with TRQ (Cotton, Almonds shelled and in shell, Mandarin, Oranges, Lentils, Pear), Metals (Aluminium, Copper, Nickel, Iron & Steel) and Minerals (Manganese Ore, Calcined Alumina). Many sensitive products such as milk and other dairy products, wheat, sugar, iron ore, apple, walnuts and others, have been kept in India’s Exclusion list.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[telugu_fan]

5 hours ago, dasari4kntr said:

 

NPA was corrupt and dead now...thats why people choose NDA in 2014...

if any one questioning NDA...the answer shouldn't be NPA...then whats the difference..between NDA and NPA..?

NDA ni question chesina prati vaadu congress vaadu kaadhu..

 

Bhayya, I think you mean UPA. UPA (United progressive Allaiance led by Congress) was the govt that was voted out in 2014. The NPA i am referring to is the Non-Performance Assets the loans that banks gave out in the 2010-2012 timeframe mostly that were not returned and kept on going on untill the then finance minister Arun Jaitley had to crack whip and make NPA's public.

It kept on ballooning and was 5lakh crores to 8lakh crores to about the highest of 10.3 lakh crores in 2017-2018 and was brought down systematically through recovery, rules change and through IBC (Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code).

Did any of the news channels do any prime time program on the bad loans in the banks and what govt has to do and what it did?

Its good that everyone is now bothered about LIC investment of 35k crores rupees and they should be, where were these worthies when all the NPA's were accumulated by the businesses.

That is the basis for my questioning of the same new channels now. If nothing comes out of this supreme court panel these news items will die away.