The state of dalit ideologues in India

[Tryad]

they went from refusing to accept Hindutva, to asking to be accommodated into the hindutva pantheon of leaders. what a fall..

@CanadianMalodu

did you study dalits too, and what do you think explains this shift in attitudes towards Hindutva among dalits?, or did you restrict yourself to admiring the 'business acumen' of kammas?

[Ryzen_renoir]

7 minutes ago, Tryad said:

they went from refusing to accept Hindutva, to asking to be accommodated into the hindutva pantheon of leaders. what a fall..

@CanadianMalodu

did you study dalits too, and what do you think explains this shift in attitudes towards Hindutva among dalits?, or did you restrict yourself to admiring the 'business acumen' of kammas?

Hindutva is already a OBC heavy movement now , just a matter of time they will pander to dalits too. it's only a matter of time rss has a dalit chief 

[Tryad]

5 minutes ago, Ryzen_renoir said:

Hindutva is already a OBC heavy movement now , just a matter of time they will pander to dalits too. it's only a matter of time rss has a dalit chief 

exactly how fascism plays out.

[Midnightsun]

There is a need for more stalins from south india.

Hindutva is bogus sense of illusion, they operate the shift from illusion to reality… once u accept illusion thats it

Dalits has sense of False identity… chaotic gurus who create shift they can jump from one ideology to another swiftly without thinking much

[Tryad]

1 minute ago, Midnightsun said:

There is a need for more stalins from south india.

Hindutva is bogus sense of illusion, they operate the shift from illusion to reality… once u accept illusion thats it

Dalits has sense of False identity… chaotic gurus who create shift they can jump from one ideology to another swiftly without thinking much

other than the stalin part, I agree with you on this.

especially well off dalits recognize that they are better off hitching their wagon with the hindutva, than trying to swim against the majority tide.

 

[CanadianMalodu]

56 minutes ago, Tryad said:

they went from refusing to accept Hindutva, to asking to be accommodated into the hindutva pantheon of leaders. what a fall..

@CanadianMalodu

did you study dalits too, and what do you think explains this shift in attitudes towards Hindutva among dalits?, or did you restrict yourself to admiring the 'business acumen' of kammas?

My perspective is Scheduled Castes is constitutional term, which was accorded to assign certain special privileges to pre independence 'depressed classes'. Now, the word 'dalit' mean 'oppressed', and has leftist connotation. This needs to be given up. The victim mentality will never raise one up in ranks. You need intellect, capital and enterprise to do so. That means scheduled castes communities should give up reservations (I did), fight for what's your own rather than relying on state/government with a begging bowl. Accept capitalism, and start an enterprise be a part of enterprise. Once enterprise issue is settled, then land comes to you and with land power then respect. Sure there will be fight with individuals who oppose power transfer, with some people dying, because it's power play. But the fight should be fought in the front line not side lines. RSS perse practices their doctrine of equality but why should some SC  be appointed a head of RSS, it's their prerogative. Is being an SC only criteria for being head of RSS? This is gaslighting. Admiration for Kammas is always there. I have a good amount of Kamma friends and a Kamma lineage on maternal  side, so probably picked up their line of thinking. They are able to build clout and wealth by their own particularly so in the last 40 years, that's admirable and enviable. Kammas are a successful demonstration of moving up the ladder without being fit perfectly in varna frame system. That only happened because of their shifting of loyalties to capitalism from communism and believing in enterprise. 

Btw. I also admire Sindhis, Parsis the same way. They came with empty hands, don't have enough population, marginal political representation yet they built enterprises. That's what people should look up to.

[Guest]

First of all, give your daughters to dalit men for marriage. Then personally start talking about placing the Dalits in highest positions. 

Those you talk so much about caste system in Hindu-ism conveniently ignore or hide the fact that Christians & Muslims have horrible casteism. They follow the same practice of marrying within the own castes rather than setting up an example of getting their daughters married into a dalit family.

Hindu society is pretty much a reformed one compared to that of Abrahamic religions in India. 

Start following the example of Goparaju Ramachandra Rao born in a Niyogi Brahmin family, Gora had nine children. Gora got his eldest daughter, Manorama, married to Arjuna Rao, who belonged to the Dalit community In 1949. The marriage was held in Sevagram, in the presence of Jawaharlal Nehru. The marriage of his eldest son, Lavanam, with Hemalatha, the daughter of Gurram Jashuva, was also held in Sevagram In 1960. His eldest son Lavanam, daughter Mythri and another son Vijayam, continued to organise the World Atheist Conference. Mythri is the chairperson of Atheist Centre and Vijayam is the current executive director of the Atheist Centre. The physician G. Samaram is his son.

[CanadianMalodu]

1 hour ago, rushmore said:

First of all, give your daughters to dalit men for marriage. Then personally start talking about placing the Dalits in highest positions. 

Those you talk so much about caste system in Hindu-ism conveniently ignore or hide the fact that Christians & Muslims have horrible casteism. They follow the same practice of marrying within the own castes rather than setting up an example of getting their daughters married into a dalit family.

Hindu society is pretty much a reformed one compared to that of Abrahamic religions in India. 

Start following the example of Goparaju Ramachandra Rao born in a Niyogi Brahmin family, Gora had nine children. Gora got his eldest daughter, Manorama, married to Arjuna Rao, who belonged to the Dalit community In 1949. The marriage was held in Sevagram, in the presence of Jawaharlal Nehru. The marriage of his eldest son, Lavanam, with Hemalatha, the daughter of Gurram Jashuva, was also held in Sevagram In 1960. His eldest son Lavanam, daughter Mythri and another son Vijayam, continued to organise the World Atheist Conference. Mythri is the chairperson of Atheist Centre and Vijayam is the current executive director of the Atheist Centre. The physician G. Samaram is his son.

There is a problem with this approach. The problem is "marriage" or "mating" is never an equal opportunity game. You need dominance for that. A rich reddy or even Kamma will not agree for an alliance with a poor reddy or Kamma. I'll only stick to Telugu castes for the sake of convenience. Alliance comes from mutual benefit, status, riches and power in society which is manifestation of "materialism". You can say the same about other castes more or less. Now, if a SC boy loves a reddy girl, Kamma girl or a brahmin girl, none of these girls parents will agree for an alliance, now throw in some power and financial status in the situation.

Say the guy is very wealthy (uncommon, but not impossible) than the girls family, it is likely that family of Kamma or reddy girl will agree.

They wouldn't agree only in case when they are financially well off , and have political clout. But say if the guy is in position of power, say an IAS or IPS it is not uncommon. They will yield. You can say the same for girls too. Geetha Reddi is a SC (Mala) married into a Reddy house hold. Gaddam Vivek's daughter SC MALA and mother brahmin was married into Kamma family. I have seen more of this stuff. 

But if the guy is not in position of power then you will see some scary situations where he may get murdered.

Which is why I always advocate progression of individual in terms of financial and political status (there are mutually exchangeable till a certain point), there will never be equality. 

With Brahmins, more than agrarian castes it's about purity rather than material wealth. Most of them are changing , but there are still a lot of them that subscribe to this concept of purity.

What I just said is applicable to inter and intra upper castes marriages also but not to the same extent. The word upper might not be an accurate representation, when used with Kammas or reddies or Jats or Kurmis or Mudaliars or Nairs. These are "dominant" castes rather where power is accumulated by control of land and populace, rather than being higher interms of varna hierarchy.

[Tryad]

1 hour ago, CanadianMalodu said:

The victim mentality will never raise one up in ranks.

would you consider sanghi behaviour as 'victim mentality' too, when they indulge in whining about foreigners pillaging their glorious imagined civilization as excuse for the pathetic performance of India?

1 hour ago, CanadianMalodu said:

You need intellect, capital and enterprise to do so. That means scheduled castes communities should give reservations (I did), right for what's your own rather than relying on state with a begging bowl.

so they where do they get this intellect, capital from?

I'm assuming you are saying SC should give up their reservations, and then??

lets say you have the intellect and capital to rise to great heights.. are you sharing them with fellow malas (since it seems you disapprove of the term dalits), or are you sharing them with other upper caste landlords that can help you move forward?

1 hour ago, CanadianMalodu said:

Accept capitalism, and start an enterprise be a part of enterprise. Once enterprise issue is settled, then land comes to you and with land power then respect.

ah so, you prefer malas to start small businesses (like tiffen bandis, or some low cost business) and grow from there, instead of availing reservations, right? Is that how your mala father grew his land power and respect, that he was able to transfer to you, as a half mala?

more importantly, would you be open to actually financing mala small business with daily loans, with much less interests than the predatory loans currently they have on offer?

1 hour ago, CanadianMalodu said:

RSS perse practices their doctrine of equality but why should som SC  be appointed a head of RSS, it's their preparative. Is being an SC only criteria for being head of RSS? This is gaslighting.

I was actually mocking the idea that the dalit intellectual wants an SC person to head a murderous fascist group like RSS, instead of basing his politics in opposition to it.

1 hour ago, CanadianMalodu said:

Kammas are a successful demonstration of moving up the ladder without being fit perfectly in varna frame system. That only happened because of their shifting of loyalties to capitalism from communism and believing in enterprise. 

kammas were landowners, and didnt start from nothing. I dno't think every caste group has the same privilege.

1 hour ago, CanadianMalodu said:

Btw. I also admire Sindhis, Parsis the same way. They came with empty hands, don't have enough population, marginal political representation yet they built enterprises. That's what people should look up to.

you are talking of something that happened several centuries ago. they gathered enough wealth in the meantime to becoem showrunners from behind. How woud their situation be applied to SCs who were refused even basic rights?

so you just are a capitalist now.. and use your caste name why? to inspire more malas to become intellectual enough to network with you, and rise up the same way Kammas, Parsis did?

 

[Tryad]

34 minutes ago, CanadianMalodu said:

There is a problem with this approach. The problem is "marriage" or "mating" is never a equal opportunity game. You need dominance for that. A rich reddy or even Kamma will not agree for an alliance with poor reddy or Kamma. I'll only stick to Telugu castes for the sake of convenience. Alliance comes from mutual benefit, status, riches and power in society which is manifestation of "materialism". You can say the same about other castes more or less. Now, if a SC boy loves a reddy girl, Kamma girl or a brahmin girl, none of these girls parents will agree for an alliance, now throw in some power and financial status in the situation.

Say the guy is very wealthy (uncommon, but not impossible) than the girls family, it is likely that family of Kamma or reddy girl will agree.

They wouldn't agree only in case when they are financially well off , and have political clout. But say if the guy is in position of power, say an IAS or IPS it is not uncommon. They will yield. You can say the same for girls too. Geetha Reddi is a SC (Mala) married into a Reddy house hold. Gaddam Vivek's daughter SC MALA and mother brahmin was married into Kamma family. I have seen more of this stuff. 

But if the guy is not in position of power then you will see some scary situations where he may get murdered.

Which is why I always advocate progression of individual in terms of financial and political status (there are mutually exchangeable till a certain point), there will never be equality. 

With Brahmins, more than agrarian castes it's about purity rather than material wealth. Most of them are changing , but there are still a lot of them that subscribe to this concept of purity.

What I just said is applicable to inter and intra upper castes marriages also but not to the same extent. The word upper might be an accurate representation, when used with Kammas or reddies or Jats or Kurmis or Mudaliars or Nairs. These are "dominant" castes rather where power is accumulated by control of land and populace, rather than being higher interms of varna hierarchy.

so much fantastical thinking, says that you are more in touch with your kamma side than the mala side.

or perhaps malas have become capitalist too these days (whatever that means). who knows. either way, its not something that will work for more than a few people, and will not uplift an entire community, which is possible only through political power.

 

 

[CanadianMalodu]

2 hours ago, Tryad said:

would you consider sanghi behaviour as 'victim mentality' too, when they indulge in whining about foreigners pillaging their glorious imagined civilization as excuse for the pathetic performance of India?

so they where do they get this intellect, capital from?

I'm assuming you are saying SC should give up their reservations, and then??

lets say you have the intellect and capital to rise to great heights.. are you sharing them with fellow malas (since it seems you disapprove of the term dalits), or are you sharing them with other upper caste landlords that can help you move forward?

ah so, you prefer malas to start small businesses (like tiffen bandis, or some low cost business) and grow from there, instead of availing reservations, right? Is that how your mala father grew his land power and respect, that he was able to transfer to you, as a half mala?

more importantly, would you be open to actually financing mala small business with daily loans, much less than the predatory loans currently they have on offer?

I was actually mocking the idea that the dalit intellectual wants an SC person to head a murderous fascist group like RSS, instead of basing his politics in opposition to it.

kammas were landowners, and didnt start from nothing. I dno't think every caste group has the same privilege.

you are talking of something that happened several centuries ago. they gathered enough wealth in the meantime to becoem showrunners from behind. How woud their situation be applied to SCs who were refused even basic rights?

so you just are a capitalist now.. and use your caste name why? to inspire more malas to become intellectual enough to network with you, and rise up the same way Kammas, Parsis did?

 

#1  There are no imagined civilizations. The civilizations existed and you have proof of written accounts for that. Islamic invasions and European colonization were real and the consequences were catastrophic. The wealth of over $40 trillion by East India company headed by Rothschilds is real. From such a loot and abysmal poverty, India has moved up gradually to a $2.5 trillion economy. What do you mean by pathetic performance ?

#2 My dad took advantage of reservation and was in position of power. I will only have control of my decisions, sure I didn't take any as I wanted to progress on my own terms, which is what I did.  What's wrong in starting an enterprise ? No government and private sector in this world can employ more than 40% of its population. Even that's an excruciating task. Everyone starts somewhere, there is nothing wrong with that. I inherit from both my mother and father because I'm their son, not because I'm half Mala or half kamma So does every son or daughter if they had generational wealth.

#3 That's a good question. I'm building my own wealth for now. When a business interests me to gain enough return, I will invest in a Mala run enterprise. Is Collaborating  with landlord castes wrong? Is every reddi or Kamma a land lord? How so ? I recently bought a land of 1.5 cr worth in Hyd from a reddi. Do you imply that I shouldn't have done that and bought from a Mala ? Should I move my money to where where a Mala owns land and not where I need land or where I gain return ?

#4. If RSS is murderous, then leftists parties and Congress had more blood on their hands. So had their totalitarian ideology across the world.

#5. Kammas had sub divisions among them. Pedda Kammas had good portion of zameendars but not all Kammas are land owners. They have some land but not everyone is a landlord. That's a statistical improbability. Also, you talk if Kamma got land just like that with a magic wand. You see specific migratory patterns in Kammas in their quest to acquire lands. A heavy movement from swapping small portions of land in Andhra for large tracts in Telangana e.g. Nizamabad to cultivate paddy and they did the same in Thungabadra region. Kammas farmers are hard working agriculturalists. Some of my mom's relatives who own land worth of about 10 crores started with a small capital of  few thousands during her mother's time and moved to Karnataka in quest for land. That's admirable and I see nothing wrong in it.

#6 If basic rights were denied then people will band up together and fight. But the problem is most of the times, even schedule caste people are not fighting for access to things for their betterment but are happy to be given free liquor, and money to vote. That's doesn't build ideology.

#7 Caste is an Identity. Sure why not ? Is Gaddam Vivek an MP and a business man not Mala? He owns V6 studio and Vishaka industries. What's the problem with that ? 

[CanadianMalodu]

59 minutes ago, Tryad said:

so much fantastical thinking, says that you are more in touch with your kamma side than the mala side.

or perhaps malas have become capitalist too these days (whatever that means). who knows. either way, its not something that will work for more than a few people, and will not uplift an entire community, which is possible only through political power.

 

 

Wrong again, no community will ever be uplifted in entirety. There is no evidence of this working anywhere. Some individuals benefit belonging to the same community benefit interms of enterprise (getting contracts), beaurocrats getting better positions or plum postings (good money again) and few followers gaining nominated positions of power. The general populace will get some better roads and lighting in their localities. Power is not poverty alleviation program. Power manifests by making people rely on those that hold it, and their progression is in conflict with those that hold to control them. Rest is theatrics.

Mayawati being a Jatav didn't make all Jatavs grow in prosperity. Baboru didn't make all Kammas rich and Jagan didn't make all Reddies rich.

[Tryad]

1 hour ago, CanadianMalodu said:

#1  There are no imagined civilizations. The civilizations existed and you have proof of written accounts for that. Islamic invasions and European colonization were real and the consequences were catastrophic. The wealth of over $40 trillion by East India company headed by Rothschilds is real. From such a loot and abysmal poverty, India has moved up gradually to a $2.5 trillion economy. What do you mean by pathetic performance ?

I mean largest/second largest number of people below poverty line, horrible malnutrition, next to no healthcare, huge percentage of stunted kids. are you saying a $2.5t economy can't even feed its people? what does it have to do with loot that happened a 100yrs ago?

1 hour ago, CanadianMalodu said:

#2 My dad took advantage of reservation and was in position of power. I will only have control of my decisions, sure I didn't take any as I wanted to progress on my own terms, which is what I did.  What's wrong in starting an enterprise ? No government and private sector in this world can employ more than 40% of its population. Even that's an excruciating task. Everyone starts somewhere, there is nothing wrong with that. I inherit from both my mother and father because I'm their son, not because I'm half Mala or half kamma So does every son or daughter if they had generational wealth.

I thought you were asking SCs to start small businesses, and grow from there.. And not 'beg' (your words) govts. your own experience seems to have not followed that trajectory.

1 hour ago, CanadianMalodu said:

#3 That's a good question. I'm building my own wealth for now. When a business interests me to gain enough return, I will invest in a Mala run enterprise. Is Collaborating  with landlord castes wrong? Is every reddi or Kamma a land lord? How so ? I recently bought a land of 1.5 cr worth in Hyd from a reddi. Do you imply that I shouldn't have done that and bought from a Mala ? Should I move my money to where where a Mala owns land and not where I need land or where I gain return ?

what enterprises are malas running these days in general?

I never said that collaborating with landlord caste is wrong. I was simply asking you a question based on your assertion that Kammas formed good networks, and wondered if you'd help malas build similar network, or stick to growing your own wealth, while just imploring malas to form their own networks, and not beg.

highlighted text: wasn't it you who claimed that certain castes built themselves up.. I was asking if malas can do it too.. apparently they can't. because you yourself refuse to invest in deals that don't give you anything in return. So where is the solidarity that you so admired in Kammas?

1 hour ago, CanadianMalodu said:

#4. If RSS is murderous, then leftists parties and Congress had more blood on their hands. So had their totalitarian ideology across the world.

the RSS elements in Congress have a lot of blood on their hands, sure. Those elements are now in BJP... and leftists?? what blood do leftists have on their hand in India? Can't remember any pogrom done by leftists.. its all RSS all the way in India.

 

1 hour ago, CanadianMalodu said:

#5. Kammas had sub divisions among them. Pedda Kammas had good portion of zameendars but not all Kammas are land owners. They have some land but not everyone is a landlord. That's a statistical improbability. Also, you talk if Kamma got land just like that with a magic wand. You see specific migratory patterns in Kammas in their quest to acquire lands. A heavy movement from swapping small portions of land in Andhra for large reacts in Telangana e.g. Nizamabad to cultivate paddy and they did the same in Thungabadra region. Kammas farmers are hard working agriculturalists. Some of my mom's relatives who own land worth of about 10 crores started with a small capital of  few thousands during her mother's time and moved to Karnataka in quest for land. That's admirable and I see nothing wrong in it.

everyone doesn't have to be a landlord.. I thought you said Kammas were all successful, and not Pedda Kammas. So why the distinction now? anyway Kammas cannot compared with any of SCs, in that they did not belong to the untouchable class..

1 hour ago, CanadianMalodu said:

#6 If basic rights were denied then people will band up together and fight. But the problem is most of the times, even schedule caste people are not fighting for access to things for their betterment but are happy to be given free liquor, and money to vote. That's doesn't build ideology.

what are the things you think they should fight for access to? clean water, electricity, and other public services that others take for granted? Is it there fault that they have to fight for it, or the fault of the govt that prioritizes the needs of your favourite capitalists?

1 hour ago, CanadianMalodu said:

#7 Caste is an Identity. Sure why not ? Is Gaddam Vivek an MP and a business man not Mala? He owns V6 studio and Vishaka industries. What's the problem with that ? 

so you're giving an example of a nepo baby like G Vivek as an example of a successful businessman from the mala community.. good. the problem is obvious here. Everyone can't be G Vivek. or even you.

----------

I'm only curious why you use the caste name in your id, and proudly show it when you have only scorn for that half of your caste.. and only like select successful people from it.

[anna_gari_maata]

4 hours ago, Tryad said:

exactly how fascism plays out.

Lol shifting goal posts now

[kingcasanova]

4 hours ago, Midnightsun said:

There is a need for more stalins from south india.

Hindutva is bogus sense of illusion, they operate the shift from illusion to reality… once u accept illusion thats it

Dalits has sense of False identity… chaotic gurus who create shift they can jump from one ideology to another swiftly without thinking much

what will stalin bring? or make?