The state of dalit ideologues in India

[Telugodura456]

4 minutes ago, Tryad said:

strangest definition of working class in the modern age. an entire caste cannot be working class when they've captured one of the two major political parties of the state.

working class wouldn't be bothered where the capital of AP comes up in, for eg. Only owner class that plans to live off the rents would.

Nee thalakayi. No they havent captured a political party. There is no automatic entry to tdp just because you are a kamma. And neither are political parties an extraction class. A few people at top maybe - but it goes to those individuals and not to their castes.

There are two extraction classes - a capitalist class in which kammas are small fry in any way you look at it (how much market cap they control in bse or nse and compare it with how much brahmins control. INfosys alone controls more than a lot of castes), second extraction class comes from caste. In caste case other than brahmins and some feudal remnants in places like telangana evaddu peekedhi emi ledhu. THey may exploit the differences but cannot enforce them.

The problem you have is - you reek of jealousy from top to bottom. 

 

[Tryad]

8 minutes ago, Telugodura456 said:

Nee thalakayi. No they havent captured a political party. There is no automatic entry to tdp just because you are a kamma. And neither are political parties an extraction class. A few people at top maybe - but it goes to those individuals and not to their castes.

There are two extraction classes - a capitalist class in which kammas are small fry in any way you look at it (how much market cap they control in bse or nse and compare it with how much brahmins control. INfosys alone controls more than a lot of castes), second extraction class comes from caste. In caste case other than brahmins and some feudal remnants in places like telangana evaddu peekedhi emi ledhu. THey may exploit the differences but cannot enforce them.

The problem you have is - you reek of jealousy from top to bottom.

if political parties are not rent seeking extractive machinery, in the neoliberal order, then what are they? vehicles for social justice? haha..

just because Kammas are not at the top of capitalist calss along with brahmins and banias, they are not the extractive class.. nice logic there, dumbfcuk.

the topic here is dalit ideologues turning favourable to Hindutva, and not just the one I posted above. And you havet o make it about Kammas, because I said a basic fact about how Kammas being the land owning class cannot be compared to SCs that never had any physical or social capital to start with. I said that because that guy was awed by kammas, and was giving sh1t advice to malas, that would never work out.

 

[Telugodura456]

4 minutes ago, Tryad said:

if political parties are not rent seeking extractive machinery, in the neoliberal order, then what are they? vehicles for social justice? haha..

just because Kammas are not at the top of capitalist calss along with brahmins and banias, they are not the extractive class.. nice logic there, dumbfcuk.

the topic here is dalit ideologues turning favourable to Hindutva, and not just the one I posted above. And you havet o make it about Kammas, because I said a basic fact about how Kammas being the land owning class cannot be compared to SCs that never had any physical or social capital to start with. I said that because that guy was awed by kammas, and was giving sh1t advice to malas, that would never work out.

 

Yes - political parties - are the vehicle of social justice in india.  Even BJP is 100 times more accommodative to bahujans than any pontificating brahmin ceo is . They are not perfect but they are - by far - more accomodative than any other institution in india from corporate to defense to religion to trade or whatever.

TDP took a stance against patel/patwari. YSRCP massive benefits unleashed.

No - kammas are by no definition - an extractive class. They maybe as part of capitalist system but they are too small a fry to matter.

 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Telugodura456 said:

Nee thalakayi. No they havent captured a political party. There is no automatic entry to tdp just because you are a kamma.

 

[Tryad]

18 minutes ago, Telugodura456 said:

Yes - political parties - are the vehicle of social justice in india.  Even BJP is 100 times more accommodative to bahujans than any pontificating brahmin ceo is . They are not perfect but they are - by far - more accomodative than any other institution in india from corporate to defense to religion to trade or whatever.

TDP took a stance against patel/patwari. YSRCP massive benefits unleashed.

No - kammas are by no definition - an extractive class. They maybe as part of capitalist system but they are too small a fry to matter.

a bullshitting corporate CEO being accommodative to bahujans - some infinitesimal number tending to zero

100 times of (sum infinitesimal number tending to zero) is???? almost nothing.

on the other hand - the wealth of parties when enjoying power is the opposite. lite.

again, Kammas are the ruling class, which is extractive by nature. They may not control major corporations, but they do control a lot of bureaucracy (that recent judge who's daughter accepted amaravati lands as gift), and hence are extractive.

anyway the topic is not about Kammas. so chill.

 

[Telugodura456]

Just now, Tryad said:

a bullshitting corporate CEO being accommodative to bahujans - some infinitesimal number tending to zero

100 times of (sum infinitesimal number tending to zero) is???? almost nothing.

on the other hand - the wealth of parties when enjoying power is the opposite. lite.

again, Kammas are the ruling class, which is extractive by nature. They may not control major corporations, but they do control a lot of bureaucracy (that recent judge who's daughter accepted amaravati lands as gift), and hence are extractive.

anyway the topic is not about Kammas. so chill.

 

Nee thalakayi le. Corruption is not same as extraction. Amaravati lands are listed by owners and their names in public database.

But i doubt you care about facts. You never care about people to begin with.

[Tryad]

Just now, Telugodura456 said:

Nee thalakayi le. Corruption is not same as extraction. Amaravati lands are listed by owners and their names in public database.

But i doubt you care about facts. You never care about people to begin with.

what exactly is extraction, if corruption in public life not one facet of extraction?

[CanadianMalodu]

2 hours ago, Tryad said:

hope malas don't listen to spoilt rich people like you in their community, who are ready to sell them off as pawns in exchange for power. there's no difference between the leftists you speak derisively about, and what you are saying - rationing access to resources based on cold calculation of how it'll help those that hold the said power.

especially when the said resources are not in short supply, and can be expanded by using state power.

I mean if this is what your idea of capitalism is.. well done. You've managed to absorb everything that made the capitalist class work.. too bad, it won't help malas, how muchever you want to pretend that it will. I suspect you don't care either way, and just want to get rich and powerful. good luck to you. but your advice to malas is just laughable.

 

Who is selling whom for power? All I spoke about is enterprise and you are extrapolating to whatever imagination you have. Resources can't be expanded using state power. You can redistribute them to an extent but that's it, you can't make resources, I don't what know  what sort of proposition you are making when you say 'expanding using state power'.  What helps me is what I do. That's called individualism. Those that have it will know what they do. Malas are not exception. Sure, think what you can but there are malas out there who do exactly that I do, they don't seek advice from you. There are corporations both public and private that lend malas and other scheduled castes capital for enterprise, don't know if you even know it.

[Tryad]

Just now, CanadianMalodu said:

Resources can't be expanded using state power. You can redistribute them to an extent but that's it, you can't make resources,

says who? you can feed every person in India.. that's a resource you can expand. you can provide basic healthcare to every person in India.. that's also an expansion. It is within the power of the state to do it.

since obviously the private sector is not good enough to create enough wealth to feed the population of India.. a huge minority still suffer stunted growth and malnutrition.

2 minutes ago, CanadianMalodu said:

What helps me is what I do. That's called individualism. Those that have it will know what they do.

what you are saying is the opposite of individualism, actually. No self respecting individualist would have their caste name, whether its reddy, kamma, or mala as part of their identity.

4 minutes ago, CanadianMalodu said:

Malas are not exception. Sure, think what you can but there are malas out there who do exactly that I do, they don't seek advice from you.

they are not an exception. that's not what I said. I said they can't replicate what Kammas did, since it happened in an era where there was no pushback to such tactical network building that vaishyas, rajus, kammas, reddis did..

its that much harder for malas to usurp incumbents like that, and make their mark. They'll most likely end up like you, asking fellow malas to give up reservation, as if its going to make a difference in how they are perceived in the larger society.

either way, its not a recipe for anything. its neither individualist, not well thought out plan of action.

[Tryad]

9 minutes ago, CanadianMalodu said:

Who is selling whom for power?

you.. based on your description of how power works.

isn't it an individualist goal to destroy power structures to push our agenda forward? or is sucking up to powerful a$$holes in the hope of gaining their goodwill, the new definition of individualism?

[Telugodura456]

2 minutes ago, Tryad said:

you.. based on your description of how power works.

isn't it an individualist goal to destroy power structures to push our agenda forward? or is sucking up to powerful a$$holes in the hope of gaining their goodwill, the new definition of individualism?

LOL  - using "indivudalist" and "our" in the same sentence. You still have no clue what you talk about.

[Tryad]

10 minutes ago, Telugodura456 said:

LOL  - using "indivudalist" and "our" in the same sentence. You still have no clue what you talk about.

okay replace it with your then. big deal.

 

[CanadianMalodu]

1 hour ago, Tryad said:

says who? you can feed every person in India.. that's a resource you can expand. you can provide basic healthcare to every person in India.. that's also an expansion. It is within the power of the state to do it.

since obviously the private sector is not good enough to create enough wealth to feed the population of India.. a huge minority still suffer stunted growth and malnutrition.

what you are saying is the opposite of individualism, actually. No self respecting individualist would have their caste name, whether its reddy, kamma, or mala as part of their identity.

they are not an exception. that's not what I said. I said they can't replicate what Kammas did, since it happened in an era where there was no pushback to such tactical network building that vaishyas, rajus, kammas, reddis did..

its that much harder for malas to usurp incumbents like that, and make their mark. They'll most likely end up like you, asking fellow malas to give up reservation, as if its going to make a difference in how they are perceived in the larger society.

either way, its not a recipe for anything. its neither individualist, not well thought out plan of action.

#1 Feed everyone in India? How? If you give food, that's a commodity, that's not a resource. Should you give them farm, then that's resource and you don't have infinite land to give everyone of them. Even if you did, it doesn't mean those that got it will keep it. Healthcare needs again both budgets, policy and trained resources and they are finite again. Free healthcare doesn't work the that you want it to Canada is a prime example for that. I very know the flaws of this system and how inefficient it has been.

#2  The job of private enterprise is to generate profit for themselves not be altruistic. It's a choice to participate in the enterprise as a partner or an employee is the subject to the will of an individual.

#3 Why is having caste name against individualism? A person can have multiple identities. Individual and collective identities can co-exist.

#4 Again, the number will vary because of gap in generation wealth, but I myself know at least 3 malas who are engaged in enterprising activity of which 1 made to the tune 50 crore INR plus by being a relator and builder. I personally know one Madiga MLA who made upwards of 100 Crore and now owns two factories that manufacture APIs. He used political power to and gain wealth and came from nothing. 

#5 Usurping is a different story, but that doesn't mean one should be dependent one state for entire existence.

#6 Perceptions are dynamic and are bound to change with time. Nadars of Tamil nadu are an example of this. In Andhra and Telangana money talks more than your caste on a day to day basis. Not to say caste doesn't matter, but also doesn't mean that it's only caste that matters Everytime. One needs to grow out of this mindset.

#7 Achieving self sufficiency  and then capital surplus is of paramount importance. Reservations are crutch, not the solution. Giving up reservation doesn't imply not prospering and living in poverty, you need to learn the difference

[CanadianMalodu]

2 hours ago, Telugodura456 said:

Most kammas are working class ra idiot. Unless they worked in fields nothing happened.

The only castes in andhra who never worked but lived on extraction of work from others are doras and brahmins. Everyone else is working class.

This is absolutely true but for some reason Tryad isn't able to comprehend that. People of agrarian castes Kammas, Kapus and Rajus used the wealth surplus from agriculture and moved it into enterprise and prospered. However, due the sheer number of Kapus, there are many who hasn't prospered to a greater degree. All this involved, a pattern of migration from villages to cities and then to abroad in quest for opportunity. Tryad doesn't seem to understand this 

[CanadianMalodu]

2 hours ago, laxmiparvathin said:

Our upper caste arrogant politicians will see dalits as votes. Nothing more than that.

kcr promised to make dalit as first cm for sep tg and now he is gearing up for 3rd.

cbn openly said no body wants to be born as dalit.

another mla openly rediculed dalits entering into politics.

dalits should start their own party and all dalits should vote for that party. Only then these arrogant upper caste party heads will learn a lesson

Arrogance comes from power. The problem is why should SCs depend on KCR for being a chief minister ? Remember Power will never be given. Power needs to be taken. Only when all the scheduled caste voters realize this, only then shall it happen. KCR took the power by force in the name of Telagana self respect movement, but in reality he wanted Velama Doras led by him to rule.